Top 25 talk

[scottiedawg]

Biggest vote gainers:
Susquehanna, 185
WPI, 124
UW-Whitewater, 97
Chicago, 97
Scranton, 81
John Carroll, 74
Trine, 73
Tufts, 68
Benedictine, 57
Elmhurst, 46
NYU, 36
St. Thomas, 33
St. John's, 33
Oswego St., 32
Pacific Lutheran, 29
Hope, 25
OH Wesleyan, 25


Biggest vote losers:
E. Texas Baptist, -167
Amherst, -163
F&M, -113
Marietta, -99
VA Wesleyan, -98
WashU, -79
Babson, -72
Christopher Newport, -71
Mt. Union, -69
Texas Lutheran, -59
Salisbury, -47
Centre, -29
IL Wesleyan, -29
UWSP, -29
St. Norbert, -28

[AndOne]

Mt. Union (8-3) is currently ranked 18h, and UW-Stevens Point (7-4) is ranked 19th.
North Central (8-4) is currently tied for 36th in the ORV.

North Central has the most difficult schedule in the country (per Massey).
Their only double digit loss was to #16 Chicago. Their other 3 losses were by 3 to Aurora (8-3), by 2 to #6 Benedictine (12-0), and by 1 to ORV Alma (7-4).

With having the country's most difficult schedule they have the same number of wins and only one more loss than #18 Mt. Union, and one more win and the same number of losses as #19 UWSP.

Among the teams that NCC has beaten are both Mt. Union AND Stevens Point!
Yet UMU is 18th, UWSP is 19th, and NCC is 36th. 

[sac]

Mt. Union (8-3) is currently ranked 18h, and UW-Stevens Point (7-4) is ranked 19th.
North Central (8-4) is currently tied for 36th in the ORV.

North Central has the most difficult schedule in the country (per Massey).
Their only double digit loss was to #16 Chicago. Their other 3 losses were by 3 to Aurora (8-3), by 2 to #6 Benedictine (12-0), and by 1 to ORV Alma (7-4).

With having the country's most difficult schedule they have the same number of wins and only one more loss than #18 Mt. Union, and one more win and the same number of losses as #19 UWSP.

Among the teams that NCC has beaten are both Mt. Union AND Stevens Point!
Yet UMU is 18th, UWSP is 19th, and NCC is 36th. 

I think you've read massey wrong.  NCC has played the 4th most difficult schedule, Alma is #1.  NCC has the #1 schedule going forward, or remaining.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think NCC is a Top 25 team.  I do NOT think Point or Mt. Union are.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

NCC is on my radar, but that start to the season still gives me pause. They have certainly started playing better, but I want to see if they stay consistent before I now put them on my ballot.

UWSP... hasn't been on my ballot since early December.

Mount Union... number 14 on my ballot. I think they are pretty good.

There are 25 voters and in a year of TONS of parity... it isn't that easy to have consensus. Have you seen how many teams are being voted for every week?

[AndOne]

Mt. Union (8-3) is currently ranked 18h, and UW-Stevens Point (7-4) is ranked 19th.
North Central (8-4) is currently tied for 36th in the ORV.

North Central has the most difficult schedule in the country (per Massey).
Their only double digit loss was to #16 Chicago. Their other 3 losses were by 3 to Aurora (8-3), by 2 to #6 Benedictine (12-0), and by 1 to ORV Alma (7-4).

With having the country's most difficult schedule they have the same number of wins and only one more loss than #18 Mt. Union, and one more win and the same number of losses as #19 UWSP.

Among the teams that NCC has beaten are both Mt. Union AND Stevens Point!
Yet UMU is 18th, UWSP is 19th, and NCC is 36th. 

I think you've read massey wrong.  NCC has played the 4th most difficult schedule, Alma is #1.  NCC has the #1 schedule going forward, or remaining.

NCC is on my radar, but that start to the season still gives me pause. They have certainly started playing better, but I want to see if they stay consistent before I now put them on my ballot.

UWSP... hasn't been on my ballot since early December.

Mount Union... number 14 on my ballot. I think they are pretty good.

There are 25 voters and in a year of TONS of parity... it isn't that easy to have consensus. Have you seen how many teams are being voted for every week?

sac-

You are correct.

sac & Dave-

#36 NCC has "only" played the 4th most difficult schedule to date. BUT, #19 Stevens Point has played the 5th most difficult, and #18 Mt. Union has played only the 60th most difficult so far.

Dave-

With all due respect, I think you should be giving NCC a little more respect than just being "on your radar."
* You said that Mt. Union is #14 on your current ballot, and that you "think they are pretty good."
* However, as evidenced above, NCC has played the 4th toughest schedule in the country to date while Mt. Union comes in considerably down the line at 60th toughest. AND, to top things off, NCC beat UMU, then ranked #7 in the nation by D3Hoops.

It seems like the evidence shows NCC is "pretty good" too. In fact, it appears that based on the facts that 1) NCC has played a much more difficult schedule, and, especially 2) that they beat UMU, that rather than just being on your radar NCC actually deserves to be ranked above UMU.
JMHO based on the available info.

[sac]

Mt Union has been playing most of this season without one of their key contributors Kyle Scelza.  Pretty sure he was expected to be a starter this year.   Scelza returned to play only sparingly in Mounts last two games, that's adding a good 40% 3pt shooter to an already good 3pt shooting team.

I would guess Dave and the other voters have been made aware of that.

[David Collinge]

Mt. Union (8-3) is currently ranked 18h, and UW-Stevens Point (7-4) is ranked 19th.
North Central (8-4) is currently tied for 36th in the ORV.

North Central has the most difficult schedule in the country (per Massey).
Their only double digit loss was to #16 Chicago. Their other 3 losses were by 3 to Aurora (8-3), by 2 to #6 Benedictine (12-0), and by 1 to ORV Alma (7-4).

With having the country's most difficult schedule they have the same number of wins and only one more loss than #18 Mt. Union, and one more win and the same number of losses as #19 UWSP.

Among the teams that NCC has beaten are both Mt. Union AND Stevens Point!
Yet UMU is 18th, UWSP is 19th, and NCC is 36th. 

I think you've read massey wrong.  NCC has played the 4th most difficult schedule, Alma is #1.  NCC has the #1 schedule going forward, or remaining.

NCC is on my radar, but that start to the season still gives me pause. They have certainly started playing better, but I want to see if they stay consistent before I now put them on my ballot.

UWSP... hasn't been on my ballot since early December.

Mount Union... number 14 on my ballot. I think they are pretty good.

There are 25 voters and in a year of TONS of parity... it isn't that easy to have consensus. Have you seen how many teams are being voted for every week?

sac-

You are correct.

sac & Dave-

#36 NCC has "only" played the 4th most difficult schedule to date. BUT, #19 Stevens Point has played the 5th most difficult, and #18 Mt. Union has played only the 60th most difficult so far.

Dave-

With all due respect, I think you should be giving NCC a little more respect than just being "on your radar."
* You said that Mt. Union is #14 on your current ballot, and that you "think they are pretty good."
* However, as evidenced above, NCC has played the 4th toughest schedule in the country to date while Mt. Union comes in considerably down the line at 60th toughest. AND, to top things off, NCC beat UMU, then ranked #7 in the nation by D3Hoops.

It seems like the evidence shows NCC is "pretty good" too. In fact, it appears that based on the facts that 1) NCC has played a much more difficult schedule, and, especially 2) that they beat UMU, that rather than just being on your radar NCC actually deserves to be ranked above UMU.
JMHO based on the available info.

And furthermore, NCC has played a much tougher schedule than UMU, whose schedule strength is only 60th. NCC has played the 4th toughest. And NCC actually BEAT UMU!!!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

When I say "on the radar" it is a catch-all for every team I am tracking and considering for the Top 25, but isn't on my ballot. There are teams on my ballot and on my radar... nothing more than that. So you can think I am not respecting NCC all you want, but in reality, they are on my radar and being considered. I just haven't pulled the trigger as of yet.

In the meantime, here i my ballot. Sorry for the delay - been a bit swamped recently: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/01/06/daves-top-25-ballot-week-4/

[Greek Tragedy]

You don't have to whine about Point anymore. They lost at Eau Claire tonight.

[Mr. Ypsi]

You don't have to whine about Point anymore. They lost at Eau Claire tonight.

We never relax about Point until they are six feet under with a silver stake through the heart!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I only watched the last two minutes and OT, but is it just me or did Elmhurst actually look like the better team out there?  Not just played better, but if I didn't know which team was which, I would've picked the Bluejays as the higher ranked team.

[pg04]

You don't have to whine about Point anymore. They lost at Eau Claire tonight.

Darn. Should have aborted that pick in the other league  . I'll be lucky if I get > 0 points in that one 

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Chapman/Pomona-Pitzer set to get underway soon, but here's all the other action so far.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Augustana	12-1	LOST at #5 Elmhurst, 75-77; 01/09 at North Park
#2	596	Whitworth	12-0	def. #25 Whitman, 95-89; 01/08 at Pacific
#3	538	Hope	11-1	def. Albion, 68-65; 01/09 at Olivet
#4	530	St. Thomas	9-1	won at Gustavus Adolphus, 71-53; 01/09 vs. T#34 Bethel
#5	510	Elmhurst	12-1	def. #1 Augustana, 77-75; 01/09 at Millikin
#6	505	Benedictine	13-0	def. Dominican, 110-78; 01/09 vs. Wisconsin Lutheran
#7	470	John Carroll	12-0	def. Capital, 75-74; 01/09 at Muskingum
#8	457	Ohio Wesleyan	11-1	won at Wittenberg, 77-70; 01/09 at Allegheny
#9	411	Amherst	10-1	def. Eastern Connecticut, 68-65; 01/08 vs. Williams
#10	339	Marietta	10-2	01/09 vs. Ohio Northern
#11	333	Susquehanna	12-0	01/07 at #21 Scranton; 01/09 vs. Merchant Marine
#12	329	WPI	11-1	won at Springfield, 69-56; 01/09 vs. #49 MIT
#13	317	Christopher Newport	11-1	won at Penn State-Harrisburg, 77-65; 01/09 vs. Wesley
#14	315	New York University	9-0	won at Wells, 89-67; 01/09 vs. Brandeis
#15	224	UW-Whitewater	10-2	won at UW-Stout, 75-59; 01/09 vs. #19 UW-Stevens Point
#16	197	Chicago	9-2	01/09 at #30 Washington U.
#17	154	Franklin and Marshall	8-2	01/07 at McDaniel; 01/09 vs. Swarthmore
#18	107	Mount Union	9-3	def. Heidelberg, 104-80; 01/09 at Wilmington
#19	103	UW-Stevens Point	7-5	LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 59-63; 01/09 at #15 UW-Whitewater
#20	88	Oswego State	8-2	LOST at Oneonta State, 52-90
#21	87	Scranton	10-2	won at Drew, 69-62; 01/07 vs. #11 Susquehanna; 01/09 at Goucher
#22	80	Tufts	9-2	won at Mass-Boston, 74-61; 01/08 vs. Bowdoin; 01/09 vs. T#36 Colby
#23	73	Trine	10-2	LOST at Calvin, 70-74; 01/09 vs. Kalamazoo
#24	69	Brooklyn	11-2	won at York (N.Y.), 80-46; 01/08 vs. Baruch
#25	68	Whitman	10-2	LOST at #2 Whitworth, 89-95; 01/09 at Pacific

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
T#26	52	Lancaster Bible	8-0	01/07 at Penn College; 01/09 vs. Penn State-Abington
T#26	52	St. Norbert	10-2	def. Lawrence, 82-62
#28	50	Pacific Lutheran	9-2	01/08 at Linfield; 01/09 at George Fox
#29	47	Virginia Wesleyan	8-4	won at Shenandoah, 89-78; 01/09 vs. T#53 Roanoke
#30	39	Washington U.	8-3	01/09 vs. #16 Chicago
#31	36	St. John's	10-1	won at Macalester, 81-56; 01/09 at Concordia-Moorhead
T#32	30	Albertus Magnus	7-1	won at Anna Maria, 108-93; 01/07 vs. Lasell; 01/09 at St. Joseph's (Maine)
T#32	30	Trinity (Conn.)	7-4	LOST at Plattsburgh State, 73-81; 01/07 vs. Elms; 01/10 vs. Williams
T#34	28	Bethel	9-1	won at St. Olaf, 76-66; 01/09 at #4 St. Thomas
T#34	28	East Texas Baptist	8-3	01/07 at Howard Payne; 01/09 at Sul Ross State
T#36	21	Colby	10-1	won at Pine Manor, 115-97; 01/08 at Bates; 01/09 at #22 Tufts
T#36	21	North Central (Ill.)	9-4	def. Millikin, 83-54; 01/09 at Wheaton (Ill.)
#38	20	Wesleyan	11-1	won at Rhode Island College, 79-77; 01/08 vs. Middlebury; 01/09 vs. Hamilton
T#39	15	William Paterson	7-5	LOST at Kean, 73-78; 01/09 vs. Rutgers-Newark
T#39	15	Texas Lutheran	9-3	01/08 vs. University of Dallas; 01/09 vs. Austin
#41	14	Delaware Valley	11-2	IDLE
#42	11	Northwestern (Minn.)	10-2	01/08 at Bethany Lutheran
T#43	10	Stockton	9-4	LOST to New Jersey City, 69-74; 01/09 at Ramapo
T#43	10	Eastern Nazarene	9-2	LOST to Salve Regina, 74-83; 01/07 at Wentworth; 01/09 vs. Nichols
T#45	9	Alma	8-4	won at Kalamazoo, 86-85; 01/09 vs. Adrian
T#45	9	Salisbury	9-3	def. York (Pa.), 75-56; 01/09 at Mary Washington
T#47	8	Johnson and Wales	10-1	def. St. Joseph's (Maine), 93-51; 01/07 vs. Rivier; 01/09 vs. Norwich
T#47	8	Southern Vermont	8-3	LOST at Middlebury, 74-92; 01/09 vs. Mitchell
#49	7	MIT	9-2	def. Clark, 56-51; 01/09 at #12 WPI
T#50	6	Babson	7-4	def. Emerson, 80-63; 01/09 vs. Springfield
T#50	6	Buffalo State	8-2	won at Brockport State, 81-73; 01/08 at Potsdam State; 01/09 at Plattsburgh State
#52	5	Juniata	10-2	def. Goucher, 69-62; 01/07 at Elizabethtown; 01/09 at Eastern
T#53	3	Carroll	10-1	def. Ripon, 72-66; 01/09 at Cornell
T#53	3	Centre	8-4	01/08 vs. Rhodes; 01/10 vs. Hendrix
T#53	3	Roanoke	11-1	won at Washington and Lee, 105-96; 01/09 at #29 Virginia Wesleyan
T#56	2	Chapman	8-2	def. Pomona-Pitzer, 73-62
T#56	2	Geneseo	6-2	LOST to Fredonia State, 86-89; 01/08 vs. Oneonta State; 01/09 vs. New Paltz State
---	---	Hiram	10-2	def. DePauw, 91-60; 01/09 at Wittenberg

I added Hiram, having seen them play twice at Bluffton's holiday tournament. Note that their two losses were 30-100 to DI Akron, and 67-71 at Allegheny.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I only watched the last two minutes and OT, but is it just me or did Elmhurst actually look like the better team out there?  Not just played better, but if I didn't know which team was which, I would've picked the Bluejays as the higher ranked team.

I watched the whole game... very evenly matched. I don't think the last two minutes were a testament of how good either team was compared to the other. Really had to see the entire thing (archive might be available?).