Top 25 talk

Started by Lurker, March 23, 2005, 09:02:04 AM

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Gregory Sager

People tend to lump all D1-to-D3 transfers into the same category, but in the vast majority of cases there's a big, big difference in quality between transfers who used to be D1 scholarship players and those who used to be D1 walk-ons. There tends to be a gap as well between former D1 preferred walk-ons and those who succeeded at an open tryout at their old D1 school for the chance to sit at the end of the bench, wear a uniform, and be scout-team cannon fodder for the rotation players in practice. But the biggest gap is between the ex-D1-scholies and the ex-D1-walk-ons in general.

The overall term "D1 transfer" can be a little vague and misleading if you don't specify whether or not that particular player had a scholie.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwumichigander

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2016, 02:58:41 PM
To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised that he is this good this quickly.  I kinda figured next year would be his break-out season.  I was pretty sure he'd already be in the rotation this season (Coach Beilein sometimes said that DR's 3-point shooting was the missing ingredient from last year's team), but if The Big Ten had a 'newcomer of the year' award (they just have a 'freshman of the year' award), he'd win it hands down.
I think next year in terms of being a more complete player (pretty good now as a shooter).  He has some work to do on the defense side as still catching up to the speed of play at this level and gets lost and/or loses his man too easily.  If he makes similar progress in the weight and strength department then he should be a really special player next season.

John Gleich

Quote from: David Collinge on January 14, 2016, 05:37:13 PM
Re: transfers, Wooster got a transfer who had been a contributor (IIRC) at the Air Force Academy but wanted to come home for whatever reason. While he's turned into a nice player after a couple of years in the program, he's not the star you'd think he'd be with that resume. You never know.

As Greg mentioned, all transfers aren't created equal. D-I to D-III doesn't necessarily mean that someone will come in and dominate.

A good D-I role player may be able to step in and be a great D-III role player. Or maybe just a good D-III role player. It's even possible that a player might be able to succeed more on the D-I level.

That may be counterintitive, but I really think that it holds. Take, say, a post player who is a very physical player and a great defender against big 6'10" or 7' D-I players. Put him on a D-III team against 6'4" to 6'6" mobile posts and he isn't in the situation where he could succeed the most.

And even though that same player might be able to average 4-6 points against D-I caliber defenders, it doesn't mean that he will suddenly become a 30 ppg rim shaker against D-III opponents.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

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Twitter: @JohnGleich

WUPHF

I know a lot of University of Missouri basketball fans who would argue that they have an entire team, save maybe 1 or 2, who would be role players at the Division III level.  :)

WUPHF

Hey, who dinged my karma?

Ralph Turner

Quote from: WUH on January 15, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Hey, who dinged my karma?
A Mizzou hoops fan who wears black and gold colored glasses...

WUPHF

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2016, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: WUH on January 15, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Hey, who dinged my karma?

A Mizzou hoops fan who wears black and gold colored glasses...

+1 I was mistaken when I described the fans as they.  I was raised in the era of Mike Sanbothe, our hometown hero, and have been a Mizzou loyalist every since.  I am not quitting on the team but I sure know a lot of people who have.  It has been a rough stretch.

smedindy

Yeah, D-1 to D-2 transfers don't necessarily mean they're stars, in any sport. I can see where the D-1 to D-3 transfers would be the same.

Even the scholarship players at top programs who transfer sometimes are just role players everywhere. I've seen a lot of JUCO to D-1 to lower division transfers and they're mainly complementary players that just didn't fit in at the D-1 place, or they got homesick.

In the two seasons before this one, we've have D-1 big men transfer to CWU and they've been stiffs even at D-2. Even at 6'10 or 6'11. Last night there was a women's player for Alaska-Anchorage who went JUCO to D-1 at Penn State to Anchorage and is last on the Anchorage team in games played and minutes. (Anchorage is 2nd in the nation in D-2 and play a fast moving game dependent on defense and steals ("Mayhem" is on the back of their jerseys) so maybe that has a little to do with it too.)

Transfers from D-1 to top D-3 programs also may have to slide into a role at first to make sure they work together with the team well. I don't think many would be bucket-fillers unless they went to a no-hoper D-3 program.

I also recall many times a D-1 football player washes out wherever due to stuff and things and plays down levels his last year or two and rarely do you see them light it up.


You just never know with transfers.



Wabash Always Fights!

Mr. Ypsi

The only transfers that are 'virtually' guaranteed are those who clearly established themselves in D1 and transferred for reasons basically unrelated to basketball performance.  The clearest examples are both women:  Olivia Lett (SIU to IWU), who became national POY, and Sydney Moss (Florida? to Thomas More), who wanted to be a student, rather than just a bball player, and is widely considered the best D3 player ever.  (I don't recall the reason for Olivia's transfer, but suspect it was the same as Sydney - being a D1 athlete, especially in the 'big name' sports, is a full-time job.  D3 athletes love their sport just as much as D1, but they do NOT work the same hours.  D3 also sometimes gets D1-level athletes specifically because they want to play 2 or more sports, and would not be allowed to in D1.)

pg04

Quote from: hplc2222 on January 27, 2014, 08:56:15 PM
oh, it takes a person, really??????????????? well that persoin should not have a job of it it is 2 hpours latewter and it still says 450-409,... you thing these peopkme deserve to get paid gor theie qoute unquote job



come on man

what if you were making a medicaqtion in aq phrama, and you boss waqs like, oh werll , fill olut the aperwork when you caqn

lol

are you seriopus?

The score was 450-409 omg! Sorry I clicked on the link of a recent post and found this.

Gregory Sager

Well, keep in mind that the scoreboard operator was clearly impaired during that game, having previously taken a medicaqtion he bought in aq phrama that had been made without filling out the proper aperwork.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

pg04

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2016, 10:31:35 PM
Well, keep in mind that the scoreboard operator was clearly impaired during that game, having previously taken a medicaqtion he bought in aq phrama that had been made without filling out the proper aperwork.

I hope that persoin was fired, seriopusly.

Gregory Sager

Yes, he was ... 2 hpours latewter.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

I'll be interested to see if Alma (a perennial loser in the MIAA until last season) can jump all the way from 6 pts. to IN the top 25.  They had a pretty good week ( ;)), beating #4 Hope by 11 and demolishing Calvin today by 22.  I'd have to think that would be enough to jump them to the low 20s, but they'd have to pass an awful lot of teams.

Darryl Nester

How They Fared (Complete)

Brooklyn/Keystone live stats are stalled at 4 seconds, so that score might not be exactly right.

31 losses (if I counted correctly). I want to apologize to Hiram supporters for highlighting that team last week, only to have them suffer two losses this week.

Top 25

Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#1603Whitworth15-0won at Willamette, 81-77; won at George Fox, 91-57
#2575Elmhurst15-1won at Carthage, 78-58; won at Wheaton (Ill.), 71-46
#3557Augustana15-1def. #25 North Central (Ill.), 76-49; won at Carthage, 71-63
#4541Hope13-2LOST at T#41 Alma, 75-86; def. T#26 Trine, 74-51
#5535Benedictine16-0won at Concordia-Chicago, 103-67; def. Concordia (Wis.), 76-67
#6521St. Thomas13-1def. Augsburg, 88-77; won at #38 St. John's, 85-73; won at St. Mary's (Minn.), 91-61
#7475John Carroll15-0won at Otterbein, 94-80; def. #19 Mount Union, 116-93
#8449Ohio Wesleyan14-1def. Wabash, 88-76; won at DePauw, 74-67
#9416Amherst13-1def. T#41 Wesleyan, 66-40; def. Connecticut College, 88-86
#10363Marietta13-2won at Capital, 78-74; def. Otterbein, 109-58
#11354Susquehanna15-1def. Juniata, 60-55; LOST at Drew, 74-76
#12348WPI13-2LOST to T#39 Babson, 71-75; won at Emerson, 70-62
#13330Christopher Newport14-1won at Mary Washington, 80-62; def. York (Pa.), 72-53
#14286UW-Whitewater11-4LOST to UW-River Falls, 70-75; LOST at UW-La Crosse, 70-72
#15280New York University12-1won at Hunter, 81-76; LOST to Emory, 64-71; def. Rochester, 77-67
#16259Chicago12-2won at Carnegie Mellon, 70-68; won at Case Western Reserve, 112-100
#17197Franklin and Marshall13-2won at Haverford, 87-56; def. Johns Hopkins, 63-60; won at Washington College, 82-72
#18171Tufts12-3LOST at Middlebury, 82-85; won at Hamilton, 86-60
#19148Mount Union11-4def. Muskingum, 94-70; LOST at #7 John Carroll, 93-116
#20111Roanoke13-2LOST to Hampden-Sydney, 92-100; def. Randolph-Macon, 91-85
#2187Whitman13-2won at George Fox, 91-73; won at Willamette, 80-67
#2280Lancaster Bible12-0won at Cazenovia, 92-77; won at Morrisville State, 97-66
#2363St. Norbert12-2won at Beloit, 86-60; won at Knox, 56-53
#2450Scranton11-5LOST at Merchant Marine, 65-66; LOST to Catholic, 62-73
#2539North Central (Ill.)11-5LOST at #3 Augustana, 49-76; won at Illinois Wesleyan, 96-89


Others receiving votes
Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
T#2629Bethel11-3def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 79-70; LOST to Augsburg, 62-66; def. Hamline, 104-66
T#2629Trine12-3def. Adrian, 69-55; LOST at #4 Hope, 51-74
#2827Hiram11-4LOST at Wooster, 69-100; LOST at Oberlin, 67-75
#2924Texas Lutheran13-3won at Trinity (Texas), 71-66; won at Schreiner, 69-46
#3023Oswego State9-4LOST to Brockport State, 67-77; LOST to Plattsburgh State, 68-85; def. Potsdam State, 81-72
#3120Cortland State10-3LOST to Geneseo State, 76-77; def. Potsdam State, 93-72; LOST to Plattsburgh State, 68-75
#3217Carroll12-1def. Lawrence, 84-83
#3311Johnson and Wales14-1def. T#50 Albertus Magnus, 113-58; won at Suffolk, 90-50
T#3410MIT11-3def. Coast Guard, 70-52; def. Springfield, 73-57
T#3410Northwestern (Minn.)13-3LOST to St. Scholastica, 74-81; def. UW-Superior, 87-78
T#3410Delaware Valley12-3def. Manhattanville, 73-52; LOST at Wilkes, 57-60
#379Chapman9-4LOST at La Verne, 69-70; LOST at Occidental, 65-71; won at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 77-71
#388St. John's11-3LOST to #6 St. Thomas, 73-85; def. Augsburg, 91-68
T#397Babson10-4won at #12 WPI, 75-71; won at Wheaton (Mass.), 92-81
T#397Brooklyn13-3won at Hunter, 96-89; won at Keystone, 75-67
T#416Virginia Wesleyan10-5won at Eastern Mennonite, 96-94; won at Randolph, 66-65
T#416Wesleyan12-4LOST at #9 Amherst, 40-66; LOST at T#41 Trinity (Conn.), 62-76
T#416Alma11-4def. #4 Hope, 86-75; won at Calvin, 86-64
T#416Trinity (Conn.)11-4def. Connecticut College, 78-56; def. T#41 Wesleyan, 76-62
T#416Washington U.10-4won at Case Western Reserve, 96-80; won at Carnegie Mellon, 92-84
#465Colby10-4LOST at Williams, 66-75
#474Swarthmore12-3LOST at Johns Hopkins, 49-60; def. Dickinson, 82-68; def. McDaniel, 59-54
T#482Salisbury12-3won at Wesley, 66-52; def. Southern Virginia, 67-52
T#482UW-Stevens Point8-7def. UW-Platteville, 60-57; LOST to UW-Oshkosh, 59-64
T#501Albertus Magnus10-3def. Baruch, 91-89; LOST at #33 Johnson and Wales, 58-113; def. Mount Ida, 98-82
T#501Oneonta State10-3won at New Paltz State, 90-67
T#501St. Vincent12-3won at Washington and Jefferson, 89-67; def. Thomas More, 72-66