Top 25 talk

[Gregory Sager]

People tend to lump all D1-to-D3 transfers into the same category, but in the vast majority of cases there's a big, big difference in quality between transfers who used to be D1 scholarship players and those who used to be D1 walk-ons. There tends to be a gap as well between former D1 preferred walk-ons and those who succeeded at an open tryout at their old D1 school for the chance to sit at the end of the bench, wear a uniform, and be scout-team cannon fodder for the rotation players in practice. But the biggest gap is between the ex-D1-scholies and the ex-D1-walk-ons in general.

The overall term "D1 transfer" can be a little vague and misleading if you don't specify whether or not that particular player had a scholie.

[iwumichigander]

To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised that he is this good this quickly.  I kinda figured next year would be his break-out season.  I was pretty sure he'd already be in the rotation this season (Coach Beilein sometimes said that DR's 3-point shooting was the missing ingredient from last year's team), but if The Big Ten had a 'newcomer of the year' award (they just have a 'freshman of the year' award), he'd win it hands down.

I think next year in terms of being a more complete player (pretty good now as a shooter).  He has some work to do on the defense side as still catching up to the speed of play at this level and gets lost and/or loses his man too easily.  If he makes similar progress in the weight and strength department then he should be a really special player next season.

[John Gleich]

Re: transfers, Wooster got a transfer who had been a contributor (IIRC) at the Air Force Academy but wanted to come home for whatever reason. While he's turned into a nice player after a couple of years in the program, he's not the star you'd think he'd be with that resume. You never know.

As Greg mentioned, all transfers aren't created equal. D-I to D-III doesn't necessarily mean that someone will come in and dominate.

A good D-I role player may be able to step in and be a great D-III role player. Or maybe just a good D-III role player. It's even possible that a player might be able to succeed more on the D-I level.

That may be counterintitive, but I really think that it holds. Take, say, a post player who is a very physical player and a great defender against big 6'10" or 7' D-I players. Put him on a D-III team against 6'4" to 6'6" mobile posts and he isn't in the situation where he could succeed the most.

And even though that same player might be able to average 4-6 points against D-I caliber defenders, it doesn't mean that he will suddenly become a 30 ppg rim shaker against D-III opponents.

[WUPHF]

I know a lot of University of Missouri basketball fans who would argue that they have an entire team, save maybe 1 or 2, who would be role players at the Division III level. 

[WUPHF]

Hey, who dinged my karma?

[Ralph Turner]

Hey, who dinged my karma?

A Mizzou hoops fan who wears black and gold colored glasses...

[WUPHF]

Hey, who dinged my karma?

A Mizzou hoops fan who wears black and gold colored glasses...

+1 I was mistaken when I described the fans as they.  I was raised in the era of Mike Sanbothe, our hometown hero, and have been a Mizzou loyalist every since.  I am not quitting on the team but I sure know a lot of people who have.  It has been a rough stretch.

[smedindy]

Yeah, D-1 to D-2 transfers don't necessarily mean they're stars, in any sport. I can see where the D-1 to D-3 transfers would be the same.

Even the scholarship players at top programs who transfer sometimes are just role players everywhere. I've seen a lot of JUCO to D-1 to lower division transfers and they're mainly complementary players that just didn't fit in at the D-1 place, or they got homesick.

In the two seasons before this one, we've have D-1 big men transfer to CWU and they've been stiffs even at D-2. Even at 6'10 or 6'11. Last night there was a women's player for Alaska-Anchorage who went JUCO to D-1 at Penn State to Anchorage and is last on the Anchorage team in games played and minutes. (Anchorage is 2nd in the nation in D-2 and play a fast moving game dependent on defense and steals ("Mayhem" is on the back of their jerseys) so maybe that has a little to do with it too.)

Transfers from D-1 to top D-3 programs also may have to slide into a role at first to make sure they work together with the team well. I don't think many would be bucket-fillers unless they went to a no-hoper D-3 program.

I also recall many times a D-1 football player washes out wherever due to stuff and things and plays down levels his last year or two and rarely do you see them light it up.


You just never know with transfers.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The only transfers that are 'virtually' guaranteed are those who clearly established themselves in D1 and transferred for reasons basically unrelated to basketball performance.  The clearest examples are both women:  Olivia Lett (SIU to IWU), who became national POY, and Sydney Moss (Florida? to Thomas More), who wanted to be a student, rather than just a bball player, and is widely considered the best D3 player ever.  (I don't recall the reason for Olivia's transfer, but suspect it was the same as Sydney - being a D1 athlete, especially in the 'big name' sports, is a full-time job.  D3 athletes love their sport just as much as D1, but they do NOT work the same hours.  D3 also sometimes gets D1-level athletes specifically because they want to play 2 or more sports, and would not be allowed to in D1.)

[pg04]

oh, it takes a person, really??? well that persoin should not have a job of it it is 2 hpours latewter and it still says 450-409,... you thing these peopkme deserve to get paid gor theie qoute unquote job



come on man

what if you were making a medicaqtion in aq phrama, and you boss waqs like, oh werll , fill olut the aperwork when you caqn

lol

are you seriopus?

The score was 450-409 omg! Sorry I clicked on the link of a recent post and found this.

[Gregory Sager]

Well, keep in mind that the scoreboard operator was clearly impaired during that game, having previously taken a medicaqtion he bought in aq phrama that had been made without filling out the proper aperwork.

[pg04]

Well, keep in mind that the scoreboard operator was clearly impaired during that game, having previously taken a medicaqtion he bought in aq phrama that had been made without filling out the proper aperwork.

I hope that persoin was fired, seriopusly.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, he was ... 2 hpours latewter.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'll be interested to see if Alma (a perennial loser in the MIAA until last season) can jump all the way from 6 pts. to IN the top 25.  They had a pretty good week ( ), beating #4 Hope by 11 and demolishing Calvin today by 22.  I'd have to think that would be enough to jump them to the low 20s, but they'd have to pass an awful lot of teams.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Brooklyn/Keystone live stats are stalled at 4 seconds, so that score might not be exactly right.

31 losses (if I counted correctly). I want to apologize to Hiram supporters for highlighting that team last week, only to have them suffer two losses this week.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	603	Whitworth	15-0	won at Willamette, 81-77; won at George Fox, 91-57
#2	575	Elmhurst	15-1	won at Carthage, 78-58; won at Wheaton (Ill.), 71-46
#3	557	Augustana	15-1	def. #25 North Central (Ill.), 76-49; won at Carthage, 71-63
#4	541	Hope	13-2	LOST at T#41 Alma, 75-86; def. T#26 Trine, 74-51
#5	535	Benedictine	16-0	won at Concordia-Chicago, 103-67; def. Concordia (Wis.), 76-67
#6	521	St. Thomas	13-1	def. Augsburg, 88-77; won at #38 St. John's, 85-73; won at St. Mary's (Minn.), 91-61
#7	475	John Carroll	15-0	won at Otterbein, 94-80; def. #19 Mount Union, 116-93
#8	449	Ohio Wesleyan	14-1	def. Wabash, 88-76; won at DePauw, 74-67
#9	416	Amherst	13-1	def. T#41 Wesleyan, 66-40; def. Connecticut College, 88-86
#10	363	Marietta	13-2	won at Capital, 78-74; def. Otterbein, 109-58
#11	354	Susquehanna	15-1	def. Juniata, 60-55; LOST at Drew, 74-76
#12	348	WPI	13-2	LOST to T#39 Babson, 71-75; won at Emerson, 70-62
#13	330	Christopher Newport	14-1	won at Mary Washington, 80-62; def. York (Pa.), 72-53
#14	286	UW-Whitewater	11-4	LOST to UW-River Falls, 70-75; LOST at UW-La Crosse, 70-72
#15	280	New York University	12-1	won at Hunter, 81-76; LOST to Emory, 64-71; def. Rochester, 77-67
#16	259	Chicago	12-2	won at Carnegie Mellon, 70-68; won at Case Western Reserve, 112-100
#17	197	Franklin and Marshall	13-2	won at Haverford, 87-56; def. Johns Hopkins, 63-60; won at Washington College, 82-72
#18	171	Tufts	12-3	LOST at Middlebury, 82-85; won at Hamilton, 86-60
#19	148	Mount Union	11-4	def. Muskingum, 94-70; LOST at #7 John Carroll, 93-116
#20	111	Roanoke	13-2	LOST to Hampden-Sydney, 92-100; def. Randolph-Macon, 91-85
#21	87	Whitman	13-2	won at George Fox, 91-73; won at Willamette, 80-67
#22	80	Lancaster Bible	12-0	won at Cazenovia, 92-77; won at Morrisville State, 97-66
#23	63	St. Norbert	12-2	won at Beloit, 86-60; won at Knox, 56-53
#24	50	Scranton	11-5	LOST at Merchant Marine, 65-66; LOST to Catholic, 62-73
#25	39	North Central (Ill.)	11-5	LOST at #3 Augustana, 49-76; won at Illinois Wesleyan, 96-89

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
T#26	29	Bethel	11-3	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 79-70; LOST to Augsburg, 62-66; def. Hamline, 104-66
T#26	29	Trine	12-3	def. Adrian, 69-55; LOST at #4 Hope, 51-74
#28	27	Hiram	11-4	LOST at Wooster, 69-100; LOST at Oberlin, 67-75
#29	24	Texas Lutheran	13-3	won at Trinity (Texas), 71-66; won at Schreiner, 69-46
#30	23	Oswego State	9-4	LOST to Brockport State, 67-77; LOST to Plattsburgh State, 68-85; def. Potsdam State, 81-72
#31	20	Cortland State	10-3	LOST to Geneseo State, 76-77; def. Potsdam State, 93-72; LOST to Plattsburgh State, 68-75
#32	17	Carroll	12-1	def. Lawrence, 84-83
#33	11	Johnson and Wales	14-1	def. T#50 Albertus Magnus, 113-58; won at Suffolk, 90-50
T#34	10	MIT	11-3	def. Coast Guard, 70-52; def. Springfield, 73-57
T#34	10	Northwestern (Minn.)	13-3	LOST to St. Scholastica, 74-81; def. UW-Superior, 87-78
T#34	10	Delaware Valley	12-3	def. Manhattanville, 73-52; LOST at Wilkes, 57-60
#37	9	Chapman	9-4	LOST at La Verne, 69-70; LOST at Occidental, 65-71; won at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 77-71
#38	8	St. John's	11-3	LOST to #6 St. Thomas, 73-85; def. Augsburg, 91-68
T#39	7	Babson	10-4	won at #12 WPI, 75-71; won at Wheaton (Mass.), 92-81
T#39	7	Brooklyn	13-3	won at Hunter, 96-89; won at Keystone, 75-67
T#41	6	Virginia Wesleyan	10-5	won at Eastern Mennonite, 96-94; won at Randolph, 66-65
T#41	6	Wesleyan	12-4	LOST at #9 Amherst, 40-66; LOST at T#41 Trinity (Conn.), 62-76
T#41	6	Alma	11-4	def. #4 Hope, 86-75; won at Calvin, 86-64
T#41	6	Trinity (Conn.)	11-4	def. Connecticut College, 78-56; def. T#41 Wesleyan, 76-62
T#41	6	Washington U.	10-4	won at Case Western Reserve, 96-80; won at Carnegie Mellon, 92-84
#46	5	Colby	10-4	LOST at Williams, 66-75
#47	4	Swarthmore	12-3	LOST at Johns Hopkins, 49-60; def. Dickinson, 82-68; def. McDaniel, 59-54
T#48	2	Salisbury	12-3	won at Wesley, 66-52; def. Southern Virginia, 67-52
T#48	2	UW-Stevens Point	8-7	def. UW-Platteville, 60-57; LOST to UW-Oshkosh, 59-64
T#50	1	Albertus Magnus	10-3	def. Baruch, 91-89; LOST at #33 Johnson and Wales, 58-113; def. Mount Ida, 98-82
T#50	1	Oneonta State	10-3	won at New Paltz State, 90-67
T#50	1	St. Vincent	12-3	won at Washington and Jefferson, 89-67; def. Thomas More, 72-66