Top 25 talk

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I agree with that point to some degree... but your opinion is Marietta's resume is better than everyone else's.. but I didn't move my first place vote away from Babson.

Also, there is more to voting than looking at wins, losses, and the resume. I know I take into account the opponents, illnesses and injuries (if known), and other factors. Some undefeated teams that had pretty weak schedules didn't make my Top 25 (resume thinking) while some teams with two-losses remained (understanding other factors).

[Pat Coleman]

I love seeing this conversation as a former voter.

One thing I always had to balance as a voter as well was whether to let one or two games completely sway me off my preseason expectations. As a voter, you at least have to consider this to be two weeks, and if you are someone who just cannot move a team more than X number of positions in a week ... you better at least double it.

But yeah, to Sager's point, I don't like voters who are unwilling to at least blow up their ranking from preseason to regular season. Actual games have to take some precedence over a spreadsheet.

[HOPEful]

Also, there is more to voting than looking at wins, losses, and the resume. I know I take into account the opponents, illnesses and injuries (if known), and other factors. Some undefeated teams that had pretty weak schedules didn't make my Top 25 (resume thinking) while some teams with two-losses remained (understanding other factors).

I undestand. I wrote no one currently has a better resume; not that they should be number 1. I am very ok with number 1 votes going to Amherst, Babson, and Tufts, or North Central. The point isn't necessarily about the result but about the methodology. I would be ok with most rationale for how a voter votes, other than "well, the teams I had ahead of them didn't lose this week"... Especially when "last week" was a pre-season ranking...

[KnightSlappy]

Actual games have to take some precedence over a spreadsheet.

[smedindy]

I love seeing this conversation as a former voter.

One thing I always had to balance as a voter as well was whether to let one or two games completely sway me off my preseason expectations. As a voter, you at least have to consider this to be two weeks, and if you are someone who just cannot move a team more than X number of positions in a week ... you better at least double it.

But yeah, to Sager's point, I don't like voters who are unwilling to at least blow up their ranking from preseason to regular season. Actual games have to take some precedence over a spreadsheet.

But what if the spreadsheet has data from actual games?

[Pat Coleman]

I love seeing this conversation as a former voter.

One thing I always had to balance as a voter as well was whether to let one or two games completely sway me off my preseason expectations. As a voter, you at least have to consider this to be two weeks, and if you are someone who just cannot move a team more than X number of positions in a week ... you better at least double it.

But yeah, to Sager's point, I don't like voters who are unwilling to at least blow up their ranking from preseason to regular season. Actual games have to take some precedence over a spreadsheet.

But what if the spreadsheet has data from actual games?

Well, a preseason ranking spreadsheet has that. It's just data from last season's games.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

It was pretty ridiculous that they were ranked so low anyway. How many other teams had a first-team all-American coming back from team with 53 wins the past 2 years?

I guess if you went by the horrible miss of D3hoops only making Edwards an honorable mention pick, you might think something different though.

Two thoughts... lots of teams bring back individuals and lots of teams lose players... how many important players did Marietta lose besides the one player coming back? They also didn't get as far as others expected and didn't finish as strong last year which makes people give pause. Really hard to argue losing a bunch of players who clearly were important to the team that because of one played the team should be highly ranked. That is a very fair look at Marietta. And I would argue I don't think Marietta thought they would easily beat CNU or Wooster let alone win both games. So to say they were ranked so low was ridiculous... is ridiculous.

As for Edwards pre-season pick - I am fine with it. I don't see any reason last year having him ahead of those who were ahead of him. If you look at the guys who were ahead of him, it would be a difficult argument to put him above them. He moved up to first-team because he was that good and those ahead of him all graduated. Leaving him one of the best big men back this season. I do like how he plays, though he has some areas that I think will be exposed this season... I look forward to seeing him adjust his game to those challenges.

Hrm, whatever weaknesses you think can be exposed that you've found, you're the only one. Btw, was talking about the postseason awards last year where the NABC picked Edwards first team and D3sports didn't pick him for any of their teams.

Bethany is a really athletic and physical team that plays credible 6-5, 6-6, 6-6 and 6-8 guys and Edwards went 15-10 in 23 minutes. He's the 2nd best player I've ever seen at MC, and I'll be very pleasantly surprised to see one better than the first (who did not get anywhere near the accolades he deserved).

Btw, MC has beaten Wooster the last 3 times they've played. Won by 15 in their tournament last year.

How many other teams that won 25+ games the last two years and have their best player, an All-American, coming back are ranked outside the top 15 preseason? I bet not many.

As Ryan noted - he was on the honorable mention team for D3hoops.com.

Yes, this is correct. Also correct is me saying that he was not selected to a team. Honorable mention is not a team.

Also, comparing the D3hoops.com team and the NABC team is like comparing apples and oranges. NABC selects one player from each region and puts them on the first team (notice there are eight players per team?). Then they select another player from each region and that makes up the second team. Then they selected another player from each region and that makes up the third team. It continues. One player, each region, each team. We don't do that. We do it like most other All-America selections and as Ryan and I have both mentioned, Edwards being an HM is not a knock on him with the amount of talent at forwards and centers last season. It was a thick crop of players - probably the deepest at that position in a number of years. He was an All-American Honorable Mention - considering how many players there are in Division III, that ain't bad.

It doesn't represent his quality, though. It just doesn't. I guess Vander Wal should play him more minutes to impress you. Team be damned. Guarantee if he had averaged 22-12 or something we wouldn't even be entertaining this. But 25 mpg vs. 35 mpg, especially playing for a balanced team, makes a difference.

So what you're saying is Edwards was first team because no one was any good in the Great Lakes and he was elevated by default? Whatever.

Not sure why you mention that Marietta beat Wooster the last three times, now...

Because you implied that the result was unexpected. Beating them by 15 in their building last year suggests that it wouldn't have been. To me beating them soundly was totally expected, as they are vastly overrated as usual. They really haven't been that good. They have maybe 2-3 players that could play for MC this season. Did you know they've only won their league once in the last 4 years? Yet people still rank them and put them in tourney fields based on the name.

[snip bunch of stuff]

As for the weakness comment... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

OK well let me make it crystal clear. I'm saying that you're blowing smoke.

If you see these weaknesses in Edwards' game that are exploitable, then you see things that people that actually coach haven't seen. He played basically as a stretch post against CNU, then played as a pure low post against Bethany. Anything he gets his hands on is his, he's quick enough to get by almost anyone that would guard him, and can elevate and play above the rim. He can play against guys bigger than him, or shorter (though that doesn't happen very often because coaches aren't that stupid). He doesn't play for a team that runs everything through him. He can't play point guard, so maybe that's a weakness for you? Then again MC had a guy that put up Edwards numbers *and* good assist numbers, and more than 2 blocks and steals per game, and still couldn't get recognition. But I'm used to it from the d3 family of sites.

Per your last question, we could go in circles on this... because how many teams won 25+ games the previous two years, lost three or more players that were part of those teams, returned one outstanding player, etc., etc., etc. ... we could show plenty of examples if you really look at all the data.

I'm not asking about that other stuff and there are no circles. I'm asking a simple question that could be answered with 4 columns on a table, and filtering. Nothing else. Filter teams for 25+ wins, all-Americans for non-seniors on those teams (just forwards would be even more restrictive as more A-A forwards tend to be seniors), and preseason ranking for lower than 15. How many rows do you get? And I imagine the answer would be very few. ONLY after all of that would the "other stuff" you're talking about matter. Basically we're saying you won 25+ games in 2 straight years -- so obviously you were pretty good. Then after that you STILL retain your best player who is one of the top couple dozen players in the country or so! If NCAA data was better organized I'd do this myself. I'm pretty confident it would show how jobbed Marietta got in the preseason poll.

As far as Hoopville matchups go, why was Marietta put against Albright? That was a joke of game that will hurt strength of schedule. Vander Wal smartly conserved minutes rather than padding stats and trying to win by a million, but it was still a pointless game.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Kudos to whoever the single person that voted Marietta #1 was.

Considering #4 is the lowest justifiable position to rank them and they ended up #4, there have to be some regrettable votes.

[Fifth and Putnam]

It was pretty ridiculous that they were ranked so low anyway. How many other teams had a first-team all-American coming back from team with 53 wins the past 2 years?

I guess if you went by the horrible miss of D3hoops only making Edwards an honorable mention pick, you might think something different though.

Two thoughts... lots of teams bring back individuals and lots of teams lose players... how many important players did Marietta lose besides the one player coming back? They also didn't get as far as others expected and didn't finish as strong last year which makes people give pause. Really hard to argue losing a bunch of players who clearly were important to the team that because of one played the team should be highly ranked. That is a very fair look at Marietta. And I would argue I don't think Marietta thought they would easily beat CNU or Wooster let alone win both games. So to say they were ranked so low was ridiculous... is ridiculous.

As for Edwards pre-season pick - I am fine with it. I don't see any reason last year having him ahead of those who were ahead of him. If you look at the guys who were ahead of him, it would be a difficult argument to put him above them. He moved up to first-team because he was that good and those ahead of him all graduated. Leaving him one of the best big men back this season. I do like how he plays, though he has some areas that I think will be exposed this season... I look forward to seeing him adjust his game to those challenges.

Hrm, whatever weaknesses you think can be exposed that you've found, you're the only one. Btw, was talking about the postseason awards last year where the NABC picked Edwards first team and D3sports didn't pick him for any of their teams.

Bethany is a really athletic and physical team that plays credible 6-5, 6-6, 6-6 and 6-8 guys and Edwards went 15-10 in 23 minutes. He's the 2nd best player I've ever seen at MC, and I'll be very pleasantly surprised to see one better than the first (who did not get anywhere near the accolades he deserved).

Btw, MC has beaten Wooster the last 3 times they've played. Won by 15 in their tournament last year.

How many other teams that won 25+ games the last two years and have their best player, an All-American, coming back are ranked outside the top 15 preseason? I bet not many.

As Ryan noted - he was on the honorable mention team for D3hoops.com.

Yes, this is correct. Also correct is me saying that he was not selected to a team. Honorable mention is not a team.

Also, comparing the D3hoops.com team and the NABC team is like comparing apples and oranges. NABC selects one player from each region and puts them on the first team (notice there are eight players per team?). Then they select another player from each region and that makes up the second team. Then they selected another player from each region and that makes up the third team. It continues. One player, each region, each team. We don't do that. We do it like most other All-America selections and as Ryan and I have both mentioned, Edwards being an HM is not a knock on him with the amount of talent at forwards and centers last season. It was a thick crop of players - probably the deepest at that position in a number of years. He was an All-American Honorable Mention - considering how many players there are in Division III, that ain't bad.

It doesn't represent his quality, though. It just doesn't. I guess Vander Wal should play him more minutes to impress you. Team be damned. Guarantee if he had averaged 22-12 or something we wouldn't even be entertaining this. But 25 mpg vs. 35 mpg, especially playing for a balanced team, makes a difference.

So what you're saying is Edwards was first team because no one was any good in the Great Lakes and he was elevated by default? Whatever.

Not sure why you mention that Marietta beat Wooster the last three times, now...

Because you implied that the result was unexpected. Beating them by 15 in their building last year suggests that it wouldn't have been. To me beating them soundly was totally expected, as they are vastly overrated as usual. They really haven't been that good. They have maybe 2-3 players that could play for MC this season. Did you know they've only won their league once in the last 4 years? Yet people still rank them and put them in tourney fields based on the name.

[snip bunch of stuff]

As for the weakness comment... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

OK well let me make it crystal clear. I'm saying that you're blowing smoke.

If you see these weaknesses in Edwards' game that are exploitable, then you see things that people that actually coach haven't seen. He played basically as a stretch post against CNU, then played as a pure low post against Bethany. Anything he gets his hands on is his, he's quick enough to get by almost anyone that would guard him, and can elevate and play above the rim. He can play against guys bigger than him, or shorter (though that doesn't happen very often because coaches aren't that stupid). He doesn't play for a team that runs everything through him. He can't play point guard, so maybe that's a weakness for you? Then again MC had a guy that put up Edwards numbers *and* good assist numbers, and more than 2 blocks and steals per game, and still couldn't get recognition. But I'm used to it from the d3 family of sites.

Per your last question, we could go in circles on this... because how many teams won 25+ games the previous two years, lost three or more players that were part of those teams, returned one outstanding player, etc., etc., etc. ... we could show plenty of examples if you really look at all the data.

I'm not asking about that other stuff and there are no circles. I'm asking a simple question that could be answered with 4 columns on a table, and filtering. Nothing else. Filter teams for 25+ wins, all-Americans for non-seniors on those teams (just forwards would be even more restrictive as more A-A forwards tend to be seniors), and preseason ranking for lower than 15. How many rows do you get? And I imagine the answer would be very few. ONLY after all of that would the "other stuff" you're talking about matter. Basically we're saying you won 25+ games in 2 straight years -- so obviously you were pretty good. Then after that you STILL retain your best player who is one of the top couple dozen players in the country or so! If NCAA data was better organized I'd do this myself. I'm pretty confident it would show how jobbed Marietta got in the preseason poll.

As far as Hoopville matchups go, why was Marietta put against Albright? That was a joke of game that will hurt strength of schedule. Vander Wal smartly conserved minutes rather than padding stats and trying to win by a million, but it was still a pointless game.

I don't understand your beef with any of this. He explained how the system is different between the NABC and D3hoops. Do I wish A.J. had received a better showing and made 1st or 2nd team on the D3hoops team...Yes, of course. Do I think he was robbed? No. Those guys ahead of him were some pretty darn good ball players.

As far as the preseason ranking goes, I'm not much for blowing smoke up my backside but I'd like to think I know a thing or two about the Marietta program.  I had some serious question marks about this team heading into the season. Who would fill the hole that Eddy Grenert left on the block and provide that 1-2 punch down low? Could anyone replace the production Luis Garcia had on the wing last year? I knew the guys on the roster who needed to step up and fill those roles, but I hadn't seen them do it on the floor consistently enough to sleep soundly about it. If the voting sheet had been sitting on my desk, I don't think I could have placed Marietta higher than #15 to start the year. Too many question marks I had that needed to be answered.

Now we can sit here now after 5 games and say all those questions so far have checkmarks next to them and then some. Guess what? They won the tough games on the schedule and they moved up in the poll accordingly. If they continue to impress and win ballgames, they'll keep moving up. There's plenty of tough games on the schedule left to impress voters...undefeated Wesleyan, #5 Whitman, John Carroll, Baldwin Wallace, Mount Union...so on and so forth. There's no need to get upset about a preseason ranking that everyone forgets about in a couple of weeks anyways.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

It was pretty ridiculous that they were ranked so low anyway. How many other teams had a first-team all-American coming back from team with 53 wins the past 2 years?

I guess if you went by the horrible miss of D3hoops only making Edwards an honorable mention pick, you might think something different though.

Two thoughts... lots of teams bring back individuals and lots of teams lose players... how many important players did Marietta lose besides the one player coming back? They also didn't get as far as others expected and didn't finish as strong last year which makes people give pause. Really hard to argue losing a bunch of players who clearly were important to the team that because of one played the team should be highly ranked. That is a very fair look at Marietta. And I would argue I don't think Marietta thought they would easily beat CNU or Wooster let alone win both games. So to say they were ranked so low was ridiculous... is ridiculous.

As for Edwards pre-season pick - I am fine with it. I don't see any reason last year having him ahead of those who were ahead of him. If you look at the guys who were ahead of him, it would be a difficult argument to put him above them. He moved up to first-team because he was that good and those ahead of him all graduated. Leaving him one of the best big men back this season. I do like how he plays, though he has some areas that I think will be exposed this season... I look forward to seeing him adjust his game to those challenges.

Hrm, whatever weaknesses you think can be exposed that you've found, you're the only one. Btw, was talking about the postseason awards last year where the NABC picked Edwards first team and D3sports didn't pick him for any of their teams.

Bethany is a really athletic and physical team that plays credible 6-5, 6-6, 6-6 and 6-8 guys and Edwards went 15-10 in 23 minutes. He's the 2nd best player I've ever seen at MC, and I'll be very pleasantly surprised to see one better than the first (who did not get anywhere near the accolades he deserved).

Btw, MC has beaten Wooster the last 3 times they've played. Won by 15 in their tournament last year.

How many other teams that won 25+ games the last two years and have their best player, an All-American, coming back are ranked outside the top 15 preseason? I bet not many.

As Ryan noted - he was on the honorable mention team for D3hoops.com.

Yes, this is correct. Also correct is me saying that he was not selected to a team. Honorable mention is not a team.

Also, comparing the D3hoops.com team and the NABC team is like comparing apples and oranges. NABC selects one player from each region and puts them on the first team (notice there are eight players per team?). Then they select another player from each region and that makes up the second team. Then they selected another player from each region and that makes up the third team. It continues. One player, each region, each team. We don't do that. We do it like most other All-America selections and as Ryan and I have both mentioned, Edwards being an HM is not a knock on him with the amount of talent at forwards and centers last season. It was a thick crop of players - probably the deepest at that position in a number of years. He was an All-American Honorable Mention - considering how many players there are in Division III, that ain't bad.

It doesn't represent his quality, though. It just doesn't. I guess Vander Wal should play him more minutes to impress you. Team be damned. Guarantee if he had averaged 22-12 or something we wouldn't even be entertaining this. But 25 mpg vs. 35 mpg, especially playing for a balanced team, makes a difference.

So what you're saying is Edwards was first team because no one was any good in the Great Lakes and he was elevated by default? Whatever.

Not sure why you mention that Marietta beat Wooster the last three times, now...

Because you implied that the result was unexpected. Beating them by 15 in their building last year suggests that it wouldn't have been. To me beating them soundly was totally expected, as they are vastly overrated as usual. They really haven't been that good. They have maybe 2-3 players that could play for MC this season. Did you know they've only won their league once in the last 4 years? Yet people still rank them and put them in tourney fields based on the name.

[snip bunch of stuff]

As for the weakness comment... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

OK well let me make it crystal clear. I'm saying that you're blowing smoke.

If you see these weaknesses in Edwards' game that are exploitable, then you see things that people that actually coach haven't seen. He played basically as a stretch post against CNU, then played as a pure low post against Bethany. Anything he gets his hands on is his, he's quick enough to get by almost anyone that would guard him, and can elevate and play above the rim. He can play against guys bigger than him, or shorter (though that doesn't happen very often because coaches aren't that stupid). He doesn't play for a team that runs everything through him. He can't play point guard, so maybe that's a weakness for you? Then again MC had a guy that put up Edwards numbers *and* good assist numbers, and more than 2 blocks and steals per game, and still couldn't get recognition. But I'm used to it from the d3 family of sites.

Per your last question, we could go in circles on this... because how many teams won 25+ games the previous two years, lost three or more players that were part of those teams, returned one outstanding player, etc., etc., etc. ... we could show plenty of examples if you really look at all the data.

I'm not asking about that other stuff and there are no circles. I'm asking a simple question that could be answered with 4 columns on a table, and filtering. Nothing else. Filter teams for 25+ wins, all-Americans for non-seniors on those teams (just forwards would be even more restrictive as more A-A forwards tend to be seniors), and preseason ranking for lower than 15. How many rows do you get? And I imagine the answer would be very few. ONLY after all of that would the "other stuff" you're talking about matter. Basically we're saying you won 25+ games in 2 straight years -- so obviously you were pretty good. Then after that you STILL retain your best player who is one of the top couple dozen players in the country or so! If NCAA data was better organized I'd do this myself. I'm pretty confident it would show how jobbed Marietta got in the preseason poll.

As far as Hoopville matchups go, why was Marietta put against Albright? That was a joke of game that will hurt strength of schedule. Vander Wal smartly conserved minutes rather than padding stats and trying to win by a million, but it was still a pointless game.

I don't understand your beef with any of this. He explained how the system is different between the NABC and D3hoops. Do I wish A.J. had received a better showing and made 1st or 2nd team on the D3hoops team...Yes, of course. Do I think he was robbed? No. Those guys ahead of him were some pretty darn good ball players.

As far as the preseason ranking goes, I'm not much for blowing smoke up my backside but I'd like to think I know a thing or two about the Marietta program.  I had some serious question marks about this team heading into the season. Who would fill the hole that Eddy Grenert left on the block and provide that 1-2 punch down low? Could anyone replace the production Luis Garcia had on the wing last year? I knew the guys on the roster who needed to step up and fill those roles, but I hadn't seen them do it on the floor consistently enough to sleep soundly about it. If the voting sheet had been sitting on my desk, I don't think I could have placed Marietta higher than #15 to start the year. Too many question marks I had that needed to be answered.

Now we can sit here now after 5 games and say all those questions so far have checkmarks next to them and then some. Guess what? They won the tough games on the schedule and they moved up in the poll accordingly. If they continue to impress and win ballgames, they'll keep moving up. There's plenty of tough games on the schedule left to impress voters...undefeated Wesleyan, #5 Whitman, John Carroll, Baldwin Wallace, Mount Union...so on and so forth. There's no need to get upset about a preseason ranking that everyone forgets about in a couple of weeks anyways.

Well, I'll admit that no one including me would go to this level of detail on every team in a preseason ranking (but that's part of my point; normally when you're looking at a program with a track record, you look at whether they have their key guy or two back and then assume the rest will come together).

But for people more familiar, I think there were plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Kyle Dixon was really really good the 2nd half of the year. I don't know how he could have been better, 47% FG, 48% 3FG in the league, good defense, good athletic ability, was really solid in postseason. Wallace was inconsistent shooting-wise (so was Garcia until about the last 8 games of his career), but got more aggressive and productive in league play. 7 ppg in 13 min is real impact. I think we've just started to see what he can do. I really thought either of them could have been starters last year, but there was no way anyone was starting over McKean regardless of what the stat sheet said, and I can't argue with that with as much as it meant to him. And then Keith Richardson coming back you figure would be another all action sparkplus. He averaged 10 a game in 19 min in league play two years ago as a soph. Would have been hard for that to go far wrong.

And once upon a time, Thome was preferred in the rotation to Edwards. Credible shooter from 3, post game a little below what you'd like, but good hands and good timing blocking shots (11 stl and 10 blk in league play as a 13 mpg guy). And his reb rate adjusted for minutes was pretty close to Grenert. IMO people worry too much about "oh can he go from the bench to starting" -- it's the same game, and as long as you're not playing garbage minutes, it shouldn't matter too much. And it hasn't.

If they were going to be down, they would have been last year losing two sophomore guards they might have figured on being their top 2 scorers (one of whom I think had a chance to be an All-American himself). But like I said before, good programs keep going. Vander Wal has built that kind of program.

I'm not really worried about the schedule being strong enough, but I do wonder why MC drew the short straw in a tournament with 7 pretty decent to really good teams. Would have loved to see MC play Stevens Point. Win or lose, would have been a big help to SOS, and UWSP (and most of the teams up here) play a very different style to what has become common down there. Would have been good for MC to see that before they play someone like that in the tournament. Instead they get a waste game they traveled to Baltimore for. They could have played Hiram and gotten that.

[smedindy]

Quite a few bits and bytes about a ranking in November...

[HOPEful]

I'm actually shocked at how close Massey is to the D3hoops voters, even with the tiny sample size. The top 3 have SoSs of 250, 226, and 255 - clearly driving down their massey ratings. I think most people are fine with them being in the top 5 regardless. And the last 3 is basically a crap shoot for voters and a proverbial revolving door.

Team                 D3hoops     Massey     +/- Amherst (19)            1              14         13 Babson (5)               2              20         18 Tufts                         3              22         19 Marietta (1)              4               1           3 Whitman                  5               3           2 North Central (Ill.)    6               2           4 Chris. Newport         7               6           1 Whitworth                8               9           1 Washington U.         9              13          4 St. Norbert              10             19          9 Wooster                 11              31         20 St. Thomas             12               4           8 Keene State           13              32         19 Benedictine            14              16           2 Hope                      15              10          5 Illinois Wesleyan   16              11          5 Augustana             17               5          12 Rochester              18              28         10 Salisbury               19               12          7 Baldwin Wallace    20              30         10 UW-Eau Claire       21              18          3 Mount St. Joseph   22              29          7 WPI                       23              58         35 Endicott                 24              72         48 Susquehanna        25              52         27

At this point, I don't think anyone has any reason to whine about where they are ranked (or not ranked)...

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Good stuff. Goes a long way toward confirming what I suspected about who has done the most so far.

I hope Whitman didn't overschedule by having a home game on the 18th before games in Florida on the 20th and 22nd. I think they're really good.

[HOPEful]

I hope Whitman didn't overschedule by having a home game on the 18th before games in Florida on the 20th and 22nd. I think they're really good.

Kinda funny they play two Ohio teams and a Pennsylvania team in that stretch. But it could have been even worse. Playing Wooster at home, flying across the country, and playing the next day is brutal enough. At least least they get King's on the 20th and Marrietta on the 22nd and not the other way around!

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

I hope Whitman didn't overschedule by having a home game on the 18th before games in Florida on the 20th and 22nd. I think they're really good.

Kinda funny they play two Ohio teams and a Pennsylvania team in that stretch. But it could have been even worse. Playing Wooster at home, flying across the country, and playing the next day is brutal enough. At least least they get King's on the 20th and Marrietta on the 22nd and not the other way around!

I feel like some scientist should study them for the effect of multi-time zone travel on human performance or something.

Of course they have on their schedule the games taking place in Orlando, so maybe they'll just go to the wrong place and forfeit.