Top 25 talk

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The combination of Vander Wal and the Ban Johnson Arena renovation has transformed the program into something I never thought possible, to be honest.

A team that lost in the first round on their home floor last year? Did they have a lighting issue that night too?

You wouldn't understand if I explained what last year's issue was. Starts with ending up playing what you thought were going to be your 4th and 5th guards against a team whose top 3 players were guards. Gwynedd Mercy was a much better team than that matchup -- saw trouble coming with that matchup when it was made. Was unfortunate -- that team as it was put together originally would have played St. Thomas and given them a run for their money.

Not everyone can draw Hartwick in the first round. When MC got an upstate NY team they won by like 600 points (Medaile).

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

All I want for Christmas is -100 karma...

(still thinking dinging someone just because you disagree with them is silly, but whatever. I only ding people if they have taken a personal swipe at me, since obviously Pat isn't going to do anything about it).

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Wesleyan outscored Marietta 48 to 20 in the paint.  Joseph Kuo, probably only the fourth best center in NESCAC, owned the paint on both ends in that game.

Shooting 50% from 2 is like shooting 33.3% from 3. Nothing spectacular at all. If all your 2s are in the paint, you'd probably expect to shoot better than that, actually. If Wesleyan had shot like 70% from 2, then I would agree with you. But they didn't. They just took a lot of shots from there, and not many from anywhere else.

You're really being dishonest playing like it was a blowout and Marietta got owned and dominated and blah dee blah. After 34 minutes played, Marietta led. Weird how they got dominated so much.

If you've never seen a close game get out of hand late on free throws, you haven't watched very much basketball. And you've certainly never bet on basketball haha.

[Knightstalker]

The thing about Babson being a one-man team -- whether you believe that's true or not -- is kind of irrelevant. You can win as a one-man team in basketball, so much more than in any other sport. We only play five-on-five. One great player is a huge deal.

Like those Horace Jenkins William Paterson teams that did really well and lost to Catholic one year in the title game?  One great player and several good complimentary players.  Or go back even further to the TCNJ team with Greg Grant who made the final four in 89?

[Knightstalker]

Wesleyan outscored Marietta 48 to 20 in the paint.  Joseph Kuo, probably only the fourth best center in NESCAC, owned the paint on both ends in that game.

Shooting 50% from 2 is like shooting 33.3% from 3. Nothing spectacular at all. If all your 2s are in the paint, you'd probably expect to shoot better than that, actually. If Wesleyan had shot like 70% from 2, then I would agree with you. But they didn't. They just took a lot of shots from there, and not many from anywhere else.

You're really being dishonest playing like it was a blowout and Marietta got owned and dominated and blah dee blah. After 34 minutes played, Marietta led. Weird how they got dominated so much.

If you've never seen a close game get out of hand late on free throws, you haven't watched very much basketball. And you've certainly never bet on basketball haha.

Lighten up Francis. 

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The thing about Babson being a one-man team -- whether you believe that's true or not -- is kind of irrelevant. You can win as a one-man team in basketball, so much more than in any other sport. We only play five-on-five. One great player is a huge deal.

Like those Horace Jenkins William Paterson teams that did really well and lost to Catholic one year in the title game?  One great player and several good complimentary players.  Or go back even further to the TCNJ team with Greg Grant who made the final four in 89?

Horace Jenkins is just a different class. But yeah if you have a 25 year old dude with a 44 inch vertical that was good enough to play in the NBA and who is also an all-time great defender in the division, yeah that probably can get you a long way.

That this is where you have to go for a counter though really proves the rule. Jenkins is an outlier in every sense of the word for D3 basketball.

(and while I'm less familiar with the story, I imagine Grant is as well)

Flannery isn't an NBA player.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Wesleyan outscored Marietta 48 to 20 in the paint.  Joseph Kuo, probably only the fourth best center in NESCAC, owned the paint on both ends in that game.

Shooting 50% from 2 is like shooting 33.3% from 3. Nothing spectacular at all. If all your 2s are in the paint, you'd probably expect to shoot better than that, actually. If Wesleyan had shot like 70% from 2, then I would agree with you. But they didn't. They just took a lot of shots from there, and not many from anywhere else.

You're really being dishonest playing like it was a blowout and Marietta got owned and dominated and blah dee blah. After 34 minutes played, Marietta led. Weird how they got dominated so much.

If you've never seen a close game get out of hand late on free throws, you haven't watched very much basketball. And you've certainly never bet on basketball haha.

Lighten up Francis. 

+k for great taste in entertainment.

Jerry Stiller, not so much.

[AndOne]

The thing about Babson being a one-man team -- whether you believe that's true or not -- is kind of irrelevant. You can win as a one-man team in basketball, so much more than in any other sport. We only play five-on-five. One great player is a huge deal.

Boy, is this ever true!
I've been pushing this theory (fact I think is the right word) for a long time in discussions about basketball, and have been somewhat surprised at the level of resistance I've encountered. People will say if you stop that one great player you almost certainly win. But often times, that's easier said than done.

One thing that's weird though is you have that great player healthy and play an inferior team, and your team, including your great player has a poor game and you lose. Then, before your next game your great player gets hurt. That next game is against  a team ranked 10th, 15th, or 20th and you win despite not having that great player available. People step up.
Of course, it also helps when you have a 2nd great player, or a team of very good players or, if you're really lucky, both! 

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The thing about Babson being a one-man team -- whether you believe that's true or not -- is kind of irrelevant. You can win as a one-man team in basketball, so much more than in any other sport. We only play five-on-five. One great player is a huge deal.

Boy, is this ever true!
I've been pushing this theory (fact I think is the right word) for a long time in discussions about basketball, and have been somewhat surprised at the level of resistance I've encountered. People will say if you stop that one great player you almost certainly win. But often times, that's easier said than done.

One thing that's weird though is you have that great player healthy and play an inferior team, and your team, including your great player has a poor game and you lose. Then, before your next game your great player gets hurt. That next game is against  a team ranked 10th, 15th, or 20th and you win despite not having that great player available. People step up.
Of course, it also helps when you have a 2nd great player, or a team of very good players or, if you're really lucky, both! 

That's the difference between a team with a great player, and a one man team.

Most teams with great players don't need their great player to take a boatload of shots even when he's not hitting, though. That's the thing.

I've seen what happens to 1 man teams in quality conferences. It's generally not pretty.

[AndOne]

Flannery isn't an NBA player.

And that's fine.
I've seen several D3 players that were GREAT who didn't have any more chance of playing in the NBA than you or I did.

I hope you're not suggesting that you can't deservingly be labeled as great just because you're not NBA material. 

Besides, if you are NBA material, the chances that you're playing D3 basketball are so small, that they aren't worth even discussing. 

[smedindy]

So no one wants peace on earth, they'd rather just nitpick and fuss?

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Flannery isn't an NBA player.

And that's fine.
I've seen several D3 players that were GREAT who didn't have any more chance of playing in the NBA than you or I did.

I hope you're not suggesting that you can't deservingly be labeled as great just because you're not NBA material. 

Besides, if you are NBA material, the chances that you're playing D3 basketball are so small, that they aren't worth even discussing. 

Kind of making my point for me. There's great, and then there's NBA player in D3 great. Only the latter kind has been brought up as the type that can singlehandedly take a team to a level approaching greatness.

I think more of Jesse Duperow, who had a season for Marietta in 2002 (and a career, really) that I really doubt has ever been duplicated in D3. He was #2/#2/#2/#2/#1 in the conference in Pts/Reb/Ast/Stl/Blk, and 4th in made 3s. Pretty rare combination. But because no better definition of a 1 man team (13-13, 8-10) has ever been written, you and most have probably never heard of him. They were the proverbial pretty good OAC team that ended up in 6th. I'm also not sure he even won conference player of the year because he happened to be in the league at the same time as Jeff Gibbs. Probably the most under-decorated player in D3 history. If he had decided to go to Otterbein instead of MC, Otterbein would have won 4 straight titles -- I can't imagine anyone that was around the OAC then disputing this.

Jesse could have played overseas if he wanted to, and was a D-I caliber player (we know this because he played against a D-I team; had 20 pts, 13 rebs, 7-21 FG, 9 turnovers because like I said, one man team; look familiar re: what I said earlier about Flannery?), but he wasn't an NBA player. And so even as ridiculously good and multi-talented as he was, he couldn't lift an otherwise pretty crappy team.

So for that reason and having seen that experience, failing that a team has an NBA player, I don't think a one-man team is ultimately going to get to the highest level.

[Darryl Nester]

Let Spencer have his say. It is Festivus, after all. ...

Congratulations on picking up your second smite in more than a decade. You're on a roll!

I knew I was living dangerously when I posted that, but I threw caution to the winds.

Anyway, enough with the airing of grievances. Time to move on to the the feats of strength; I have to go wrestle with some lumber in the garage.

[AndOne]

Darryl,

In the immortal words of Sgt. Esterhaus, "let's be careful out there," when you go to the garage to wrestle that lumber! 

[(509)Rat]

Let Spencer have his say. It is Festivus, after all. ...

Congratulations on picking up your second smite in more than a decade. You're on a roll!

I knew I was living dangerously when I posted that, but I threw caution to the winds.

Anyway, enough with the airing of grievances. Time to move on to the the feats of strength; I have to go wrestle with some lumber in the garage.

Make it 3 smites...it's a Festivus Miracle