Top 25 talk

[WUPHF]

You're really stretching to find an insult in that tweet or that article.

You're really stretching to find the suggestion of an insult in our posts.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

As a Wabash grad, I'm enamored with that 1982 team, and Pete & Barb Metzelaars. He's probably the best tight end Wabash ever had, for sure. And he was a very solid D3 hoops player, but his game wasn't nuanced. That Wabash team had many ways to beat you besides just lobbing the ball into Pete. They started 5-4 but Mac Petty and the AD knew they had a great team and wanted to play tough competition in the early season to get them ready for the tourney.

The freshmen on the 1982 team overlapped with me - as they were seniors when I was a freshman. I was fraternity brothers with Pete's freshman backup.

Pete reminded me of Artis Gilmore (in a D-3 frame) -  an inside force on the boards and in the paint. Obviously an excellent player, but unequivocally calling him the best center ever in D-3 is a little much without really doing a deep dive into the other contenders.

That Wabash team was our fifth 'Wonder Five" - which is a great nickname for great teams from back in the day. The others were the "World Champions" in 1908, the 1917 team led by Homer Stonebraker (Wingate, IN, salute!) , the 1922 "National Champs", and the 1925 team which had one loss - to Wisconsin.

Well feel free to dive, then. There's no doubt that without Metzelaars, that team doesn't come close to beating Potsdam.

And actually what I think I've more strongly said is best center on a team in the championship game, which has led to the Jeff Gibbs mentions because that's pretty much all anyone has got.

You don't really need nuance when you have what he had. But his hands were outstanding, obviously, so it's not like you could just surround him and count on him not to make the tough catches. Good passer, smart, unselfish, good positioning.  And obviously, extremely great at converting once he got the ball.

I wondered...assumed might be a better word, that Metzelaars needed a bit of time after football to get into basketball rhythm and shape, and that accounted for the early struggles. I suppose that could be wrong, but seemed more than logical.

Aside from luck, I still would like to hear how a D3 team would have dealt with him without having the 3, and without having a shot clock. Potsdam pressed, didn't work in part because they could just throw it in Pete's general direction and he would come down with it in the frontcourt. Other part because they did have some good ballhandling guards.

Marietta had a guy in the mid 90s that played a similar game to Metzelaars (led the nation in FG%, averaged like 18 a game), but wasn't nearly as effective and could be shut down (though it was tough). There was a big difference between him and Metzelaars.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The implication is that those guys may not have had much effect against the eventual national champ of that year. The ESPN broadcast of that title game is on our 1982 NCAA Tournament page.

http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/men/1982

Quite right. I can't believe all these so-called experts here that have so much shade to throw at me didn't know who Pete Metzelaars is. I assume the only D3 basketball champion to play in the championship of a major US sport. One of the best players in D3 history. Maybe the best ever center.

This board isn't going to live this one down for a long time. You all just got exposed.

Whoa. Back off, Spence.

I'm sorry, this is uncalled for. You have no right to say this to me. Whatever you thikn of me, I don't try to tell people what to say or do. I give my unvarnished opinion of what they do and say, but I will and have defended the right of anyone to say it.

I have every right to call you out on something when you incorrectly claim that I "got exposed."

And you're not sorry, either.

Hopefully Pat will let this go through htis time rather than editorializing.

I have a lot of disagreements about the Metzelaars thing but it's pretty obvious you're wrong and backpedaling with your condescending demand.

Au contraire. You gleefully claimed that you had just administered a facial to the entire room with your "Nyah, nyah, didn't mention Metzelaars!" rant. I called you out on it. That's all. No backpedaling.

Anyone can watch the video and see the dude was unstoppable even by a team with talent and height and athleticism. Still had no chance.

And anyone can completely disagree with your opinion on this, as I do, and that will simply be the end of it. Why? Because we give our unvarnished opinions of what you do and say, but we will and have defended the right of you to say it.

But standing up for myself against bullying like this is a lot more important, really.

Pot, meet kettle.

(FYI, I've probably forgotten more about Jeff Gibbs' time in the OAC than you ever knew. One thing I haven't forgotten is that he didn't always guard the other team's 5 man, specifically because of his height. Weird that your example that's supposed to prove me wrong and catch me out was that one.)

Fine. I'll give you that one, since you're an OAC guy. But there's plenty of other examples, such as the '15 UWSP team.

I know you probably think all of this made sense, but it didn't.

And I am sorry that now I'm going to be blamed for taking the thread off topic to address your inappropriate and condescending statement.

Bottom line is dress it up all you want, but I've never tried to intimidate someone into posting or not posting as I please. You have.

I wouldn't suggest trying it in person if we ever meet.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

While I haven't read Hurley's book I would guess that it probably was directed specifically at Ramapo, since it wouldn't make much sense for a still-active high-school basketball coach to indict all of D3 like that. While I don't claim to know all that much about Hurley or his coaching career at St. Anthony HS other than the stray article I've read here and there (that usually spends as much or more time talking about his sons), I have to think that he's had St. Anthony players go on to other D3 schools where they were successful student-athletes.

Why wouldn't it make sense if that's his experience and frame of reference? It's not his job to know everything about D3, and it's not his goal with a program like his to send kids to D3.

This is one of the realities implicit in D3. You're known by the company you keep. One reason I think there should be some real standards for membership and for eligibility.

[Titan Q]

#4-Rochester 73
RIT 72

Final play (video) - https://twitter.com/IWUhoopscom/status/816460793835384832

Tucker Knox made both FTs with no time on the clock for the 1-point win.

[4samuy]

Amherst gets it handed to them by a very avg Eastern Conneticut squad 87-75

[PeterEscobar]

Amherst gets it handed to them by a very avg Eastern Conneticut squad 87-75

As Wesleyan falls to RIC, who despite having Dominique Bull (formerly of Mizzu & a summer semester at GWU) are coming off a 30+ point loss to MIT.

Wonder if the two NESCAC teams were overlooking their Tuesday game for the first weekend of conference play.

Or maybe it was the lighting/officiating/shooting back drops

[mailsy]

At the half #20 Neumann is trailing by 3 to winless Marywood 38-35.

[4samuy]

Amherst gets it handed to them by a very avg Eastern Conneticut squad 87-75

As Wesleyan falls to RIC, who despite having Dominique Bull (formerly of Mizzu & a summer semester at GWU) are coming off a 30+ point loss to MIT.

Wonder if the two NESCAC teams were overlooking their Tuesday game for the first weekend of conference play.

Or maybe it was the lighting/officiating/shooting back drops

Come on Peterescobar, really, shooting background, referees, lighting?  Please tell me you're not serious. I noticed the emoji and am hoping your comment was a joke. The final score didn't reflect how bad Amherst was beaten.  How bout Amherst is overrated.  I think the Massey ratings are a much better gauge as where Amherst should be rated at #19.

[Pat Coleman]

He's referencing inside jokes that are recent on this board -- I don't think he was actually making excuses for the loss.

[4samuy]

As I said, I'm hoping your comments are a joke. No offense.

[4samuy]

As I said, I'm hoping your comments are a joke. No offense.

[AndOne]

Amherst gets it handed to them by a very avg Eastern Conneticut squad 87-75

As Wesleyan falls to RIC, who despite having Dominique Bull (formerly of Mizzu & a summer semester at GWU) are coming off a 30+ point loss to MIT.

Wonder if the two NESCAC teams were overlooking their Tuesday game for the first weekend of conference play.

Or maybe it was the lighting/officiating/shooting back drops

Come on Peterescobar, really, shooting background, referees, lighting?  Please tell me you're not serious. I noticed the emoji and am hoping your comment was a joke. The final score didn't reflect how bad Amherst was beaten.  How bout Amherst is overrated.  I think the Massey ratings are a much better gauge as where Amherst should be rated at #19.

Blasphemy! 
The NESCACers, especially those from Amherst, have probably already put out a bounty on your head.

[Gregory Sager]

Since Massey gets talked about so much in this room, I thought I'd run a comparison of today's d3hoops.com Top 25 with their corresponding Massey ratings:

#	School (1st votes)	W-L	Pts	Prev	Massey
1	Babson (15)	10-1	610	1	5
2	Whitman (9)	11-0	603	2	2
3	Amherst (1)	9-1	576	3	19
4	Rochester	11-0	507	6	14
5	Whitworth	10-1	497	8	7
6	Christopher Newport	9-2	463	9	13
7	UW-Eau Claire	10-1	443	11	8
8	Tufts	8-2	393	10	53
9	Wesleyan	11-0	386	22	6
10	North Park	9-1	342	13	10
11	UW-Whitewater	11-0	336	16	3
12	St. Norbert	7-2	333	7	22
13	Marietta	8-3	325	4	16
14	Susquehanna	9-1	295	14	27
15	Salisbury	9-2	230	5	23
16	Benedictine	8-3	222	12	18
17	UW-River Falls	10-1	186	22	4
18	Swarthmore	9-0	184	21	47
19	Ramapo	11-0	167	--	12
20	Neumann	9-0	166	23	1
21	Denison	8-1	110	24	43
22	Middlebury	9-1	106	--	17
23	New Jersey City	11-1	103	--	42
24	Washington (MO)	8-3	88	24	21
25	Williams	10-1	74	--	9

[mailsy]

So much for trailing at the half. Neumann rolls 91-70. Of course the stream went down with 4+ minutes to go in the  game. Guessing a lot of people tuned in late.