Top 25 talk

[PeterEscobar]

Interesting to see UW-River Falls ranked #1 by both Massey (http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2017&sub=11620) & the DII eff. rankings (http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency-ratings/) yet not receiving one first-place vote. Not disagreeing, just curious as I know next to nothing about mid-west DIII hoops.

Likewise, the computers do not seem to like Tufts (10/20), Whitworth (14/27), or Denison (20/54).

[smedindy]

Denison's non-conference wasn't that strong, and the loss to Capital hurts their power rating profile.

UW-RF is kind of an outsider in a way. I'm not surprised they haven't received a first place vote.

[Gregory Sager]

One might suspect that name-brand bias is what holds UWRF back in the eyes of the pollsters. But, then again, Babson and Whitman aren't exactly powerhouses of long standing, either, even though both of them have been nationally ascendant and tourney participants in recent seasons. Also, one could argue that UWRF's conference affiliation makes up for the lack of prestige attached to the Falcons program itself; I wouldn't be surprised if all 25 pollsters were to acknowledge that they each give a WIAC team with a gaudy record more credence than they'd give to teams with similar records from other conferences.

[gordonmann]

Yeah, it's hard sometimes for voters to flip teams that high in the poll without losses. But right now I'd put River Falls ahead of Tufts and Christopher Newport based on who they beat.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I came very close to putting RF second and dropping Whitman, but as Gordon said, it's tough to do to a team when they're winning everything in front of them.  And it's not like I'm super confident in RF that high anyway.

[HOPEful]

What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

[Gregory Sager]

What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

It was probably the same pollster who put Elmhurst #25 on his preseason ballot.

I still can't get over that.

[Greek Tragedy]

It could be lack of name recognition too, foe River Falls. When you think WIAC, it's Whitewater and Point...and further back, Platteville. The Falcons' NC schedule wasn't super challenging, topping St. Thomas and losing at Hope. But they are 6-0 in conference, topping ranked Eau Claire and Whitewater. Eau Claire had a tougher NC schedule, I thought, beating St. Norbert, winning at Wash U, topping IIAC 1st place team BVU, only losing to Wartburg. But the Blugolds have stumbled in conference, one of 5 teams at just 3-3. The WIAC had one of the best nonconference winning % this year and when River Falls is undefeated in the league and already leading by 3 games, they don't seem to be a flash in the pan. I still think Eau Claire can be a very good team and watch out for Whitewater. They started out 0-3 in conference, but are now 3-3 with Chris Jones back from injury and semester transfer Derek Rongstad integrated into the team now.

[Swish3]

Yeah, it's hard sometimes for voters to flip teams that high in the poll without losses. But right now I'd put River Falls ahead of Tufts and Christopher Newport based on who they beat.

How dare you!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

It could be lack of name recognition too, foe River Falls. When you think WIAC, it's Whitewater and Point...and further back, Platteville. The Falcons' NC schedule wasn't super challenging, topping St. Thomas and losing at Hope. But they are 6-0 in conference, topping ranked Eau Claire and Whitewater. Eau Claire had a tougher NC schedule, I thought, beating St. Norbert, winning at Wash U, topping IIAC 1st place team BVU, only losing to Wartburg. But the Blugolds have stumbled in conference, one of 5 teams at just 3-3. The WIAC had one of the best nonconference winning % this year and when River Falls is undefeated in the league and already leading by 3 games, they don't seem to be a flash in the pan. I still think Eau Claire can be a very good team and watch out for Whitewater. They started out 0-3 in conference, but are now 3-3 with Chris Jones back from injury and semester transfer Derek Rongstad integrated into the team now.

Just clarifying - that game was a neutral site game at Stout

[gordonmann]

What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

It was probably the same pollster who put Elmhurst #25 on his preseason ballot.

I still can't get over that.]What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

It was probably the same pollster who put Elmhurst #25 on his preseason ballot.

I still can't get over that.

Or the voter(s) who put Carroll over Illinois Wesleyan. Remember when we were complaining about that?

I don't think it's worth worrying too much about teams that get single votes. It's possible that Albertus has improved since Babson and NJCU blew them away. And the best team in the GNAC (including Albertus itself) has been competitive with ranked teams from better conferences in recent seasons. Would anyone really be stunned if Tufts or Amherst beat Albertus Magnus by less than 10 points in an NCAA tournament game?

[Gregory Sager]

What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

It was probably the same pollster who put Elmhurst #25 on his preseason ballot.

I still can't get over that.]What I want to know is who gave a vote to Albertus Magnus?! Their best win is a 1 point home victory against 10-7 Lasell. They lost to Babson by 20 and NJ City by 21. Add another loss to Johnson and Wales (7-8) and this team should not even be on anyone's radar to be ranked. The resumes of unranked teams like Hope, Hanover, Loras, etc. are much much better...

It was probably the same pollster who put Elmhurst #25 on his preseason ballot.

I still can't get over that.

Or the voter(s) who put Carroll over Illinois Wesleyan. Remember when we were complaining about that?

Not the same thing at all, though. Elmhurst lost nine seniors -- almost the entire rotation -- from its 2015-16 roster. Of the two players coming back who'd had any extensive varsity experience at all for the Bluejays, one had yo-yo'ed between varsity and JV so often that he was clearly suspect, and the other was coming off of a torn knee ligament that had shortened his 2015-16 campaign. Carroll, on the other hand, returned three starters and the top two reserves from a team that went 20-5 in 2015-16, so it was reasonable to deduce that the Pioneers would be decent this year, even while playing in a tougher league. Illinois Wesleyan returned a substantial portion of its 2015-16 rotation as well, but that 2015-16 team had gone 13-13.

In other words, it was a defensible argument to put Carroll over Illinois Wesleyan, even though it was a minority opinion. By contrast, the only way that someone could put Elmhurst on his preseason ballot was if he had done absolutely no research whatsoever on the team, to the point of disregarding whatever info you had provided to him about the Bluejays prior to the balloting.

[gordonmann]

Fair point.

I was comparing the two because both of those votes were heavily lampooned on the message boards  to the point where I apologized to the Illinois Wesleyan fans for not explicitly directing the voters to consider the Titans.  And now that Carroll vote looks more sensible, albeit with an injury to one of IWU's best players that the voters couldn't have predicted.

I think the Albertus Magnus vote has a better chance of being one that looks reasonable later on (like Carroll) than it does a vote that looked pretty strange then and now (like Elmhurst).

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Albertus did pick up a 6'9" freshman who hasn't played yet, so maybe that voter is projecting forward.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I voted for Albertus Magnus... the reason....


Um... no I didn't... just couldn't resist having some fun. LOL