Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

Someone beat me to the punch..... 


#6 UW Oshkosh gives away a 38-29 halftime lead and loses at previously WIAC winless UW Eau Claire.

Elsewhere, #2 (for now) UW Whitewater ties it after being down 4 with 12 seconds left and wins it in OT 67-64 over UW La Crosse

#13 UW River Falls demolishes UW Stout 96-68. That's just one point less than Stout loss to Wisconsin in a preseason exhibition... 

Finally, UW Stevens Point rises to 6-0 in the WIAC after beating UW Platteville 80-74. Point has a two-game lead on the WIAC field. Given their wins at River Falls (then #3), Whitewater (currently #2), I wonder if they'll start to get some attention in the polls again.  Not sure if it says more about Stevens Point's success, though, or the other teams' weaknesses?

Big game on Wednesday... first half of the WIAC slate ends as Point travels to #6 Oshkosh.

[Knightstalker]

Bettencourt at Endicott was on the Bucknell team that beat Kansas in the first round a while back.

Marc Brown at NJCU was an all-american at Siena.

There's quite a few.

Anothert from NJ.  Although no longer there long time William Paterson coach Jose Rembibas played for PJ Carlessimo's Seton Hall team that lost to Michigan in the final four in 89. 

[Greek Tragedy]

Someone beat me to the punch..... 


#6 UW Oshkosh gives away a 38-29 halftime lead and loses at previously WIAC winless UW Eau Claire.

Elsewhere, #2 (for now) UW Whitewater ties it after being down 4 with 12 seconds left and wins it in OT 67-64 over UW La Crosse

#13 UW River Falls demolishes UW Stout 96-68. That's just one point less than Stout loss to Wisconsin in a preseason exhibition... 

Finally, UW Stevens Point rises to 6-0 in the WIAC after beating UW Platteville 80-74. Point has a two-game lead on the WIAC field. Given their wins at River Falls (then #3), AT Whitewater (currently #2), I wonder if they'll start to get some attention in the polls again.  Not sure if it says more about Stevens Point's success, though, or the other teams' weaknesses?

Big game on Wednesday... first half of the WIAC slate ends as Point travels to #6 Oshkosh.

Sorry dude! The win vs Whitewater was AT Whitewater too. If that matters to the voters, which I'm sure it does a little.

[Titan Q]

My updated Central Region rankings.  This is the order I believe the Central region teams should be stacked up for consideration in the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll...

("notable wins" - wins vs teams in the Top 25 conversation)

My Central Region Ranking
1. Wash U (13-2, 4-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
-----
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

I'd probably have the top 8 in a Top 25 ballot at this point...and would be ready to swap out that 4th WIAC spot next week based on results.

As I have posted about on the CCIW board, the current gap between Augustana (#8, 434 points) and Illinois Wesleyan (#24, 66 points) is ridiculous.  As is the gap between Augustana (#8, 434 points) and Wheaton (ORV, 2 points).  These gaps are based on preseason expectations...and we're just too far into the 2017-18 season for that bias.  And let me stress -- I think Augustana is a great team.  But there should not be any Top 25 separation between the Vikings and IWU.  And not much between these teams and Wheaton.


WIAC Standings Through 1/20 (road wins noted)
*UW-Stevens Point 6-0  at River Falls, at Stout, at Whitewater
*UW-Platteville 4-2  at Stout
*UW-Whitewater 4-2  at Oshkosh, at Eau Claire, at La Crosse
*UW-Oshkosh 3-3  at La Crosse
*UW-River Falls 3-3  at Whitewater
*UW-La Crosse 2-4  at Eau Claire
*UW-Eau Claire 1-5
*UW-Stout 1-5


CCIW Standings Through 1/20 (road wins noted)
*Illinois Wesleyan 7-1  at Wheaton, at North Central, at North Park, at Carroll
*Wheaton 6-2  at Elmhurst, at Augustana, at Carthage
*Augustana 6-2  at Carthage, at Elmhurst, at North Park
*North Central 5-3  at North Park, at Carroll, at Millikin
*Carthage 5-3  at Illinois Wesleyan, at Millikin
*Elmhurst 4-4  at Millikin, at North Park
*Millikin 1-7
*North Park 1-7
*Carroll 1-7

[Smitty Oom]

I feel like the Central is absolutely loaded this year with good teams. WashU has been the most consistent, but all other teams have shown dominance and all have very good, resume bolstering wins. It will be interesting to see how much they beat each other up, as they are all good pool C options, in my opinion.

It is interesting to note that the #2 team in the nation is listed at #7 in the regional ranks. It shows how good the central is, granted they did take a loss this week, which Q's ranking show and the Top 25 doesn't. But there will still be the gap in tomorrows ballot.

[Titan Q]

I feel like the Central is absolutely loaded this year with good teams. WashU has been the most consistent, but all other teams have shown dominance and all have very good, resume bolstering wins. It will be interesting to see how much they beat each other up, as they are all good pool C options, in my opinion.

It is interesting to note that the #2 team in the nation is listed at #7 in the regional ranks. It shows how good the central is, granted they did take a loss this week, which Q's ranking show and the Top 25 doesn't. But there will still be the gap in tomorrows ballot.

It is definitely tough to sort out, Smitty.

I looked at that UW-Whitewater placement quite a bit...but I feel like I have the Warhawks in the right place based on the complete picture at this point. At this point UWW's only notable win is at UW-Oshkosh.  This doesn't seem like a #2 resume to me - http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/UW-Whitewater/men/2017-18/index.  And I had the Warhawks at the top of the Central ranking last week...but this is the ultimate fluid ranking situation and results from week to week make a huge impact when things are this close.

The pollsters need to be open to blowing up their ballots and looking at where things stand.  Using last week's ballot and moving a few teams up and down just won't produce an accurate poll with what's going on here. 

#24 Illinois Wesleyan (66 points) vs #2 UW-Whitewater (555 points) - who should be ranked higher?

http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/UW-Whitewater/men/2017-18/index

http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Illinois_Wesleyan/men/2017-18/index

Seems like IWU has a stronger Top 25 resume.

[Greek Tragedy]

Whitewater plays a cupcake NC schedule every year. The main reason they are #2 is because everyone else around them is losing.

[4samuy]

My updated Central Region rankings.  This is the order I believe the Central region teams should be stacked up for consideration in the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll...

("notable wins" - wins vs teams in the Top 25 conversation)

My Central Region Ranking
1. Wash U (13-2, 4-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
4. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
5. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, at Wash U
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
-----
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

I'd probably have the top 8 in a Top 25 ballot at this point...and would be ready to swap out that 4th WIAC spot next week based on results.

As I have posted about on the CCIW board, the current gap between Augustana (#8, 434 points) and Illinois Wesleyan (#24, 66 points) is ridiculous.  As is the gap between Augustana (#8, 434 points) and Wheaton (ORV, 2 points).  These gaps are based on preseason expectations...and we're just too far into the 2017-18 season for that bias.  And let me stress -- I think Augustana is a great team.  But there should not be any significant Top 25 separation between the Vikings and IWU and Wheaton.


WIAC Standings Through 1/20 (road wins noted)
*UW-Stevens Point 6-0  at River Falls, at Stout, at Whitewater
*UW-Platteville 4-2  at Stout
*UW-Whitewater 4-2  at Oshkosh, at Eau Claire, at La Crosse
*UW-Oshkosh 3-3  at La Crosse
*UW-River Falls 3-3  at Whitewater
*UW-La Crosse 2-4  at Eau Claire
*UW-Eau Claire 1-5
*UW-Stout 1-5


CCIW Standings Through 1/20 (road wins noted)
*Illinois Wesleyan 7-1  at Wheaton, at North Central, at North Park, at Carroll
*Wheaton 6-2  at Elmhurst, at Augustana, at Carthage
*Augustana 6-2  at Carthage, at Elmhurst, at North Park
*North Central 5-3  at North Park, at Carroll, at Millikin
*Carthage 5-3  at Illinois Wesleyan, at Millikin
*Elmhurst 4-4  at Millikin, at North Park
*Millikin 1-7
*North Park 1-7
*Carroll 1-7

Nicely done Q! 

Also remember, although they are not in the top 25 but are third in your regional top ten, Stevens Point was handled pretty good by Augustana at a neutral site in the Dells.

[Titan Q]

Nicely done Q! 

Also remember, although they are not in the top 25 but are third in your regional top ten, Stevens Point was handled pretty good by Augustana at a neutral site in the Dells.

Totally forgot about that game because last week I wasn't looking at UW-Stevens Point as a "Top 25 team."  Thank you.

So re-thinking that a bit...I think that game is significant.  Enough for me to make a little change...

My Central Region Ranking
1. Wash U (13-2, 4-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
-----
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton


A good thing for the rest of the Central Region (Wash U, the CCIW, etc) is that WIAC situation is so messy.  When the team out in front of the league by 2 games has 5 non-conference losses...that is a fuzzy picture.

Keep it up, WIAC!

[Titan Q]

I would be interesting to take all 25 currently ranked teams and capture wins against "top 25 caliber" teams...as I have done for the Central Region.  I am pretty sure we'd find teams that have floated up the poll with 0 or 1 of these types of wins.

[Smitty Oom]

I would be interesting to take all 25 currently ranked teams and capture wins against "top 25 caliber" teams...as I have done for the Central Region.  I am pretty sure we'd find teams that have floated up the poll with 0 or 1 of these types of wins.

I actually started doing this for the west region last night. I will post it later today hopefully. The IIAC is like the WIAC-lite. 4 solid teams are beating up on each other.

The West doesn't have as many top teams as the Central so it makes my job a little easier, but still would interesting if we could get one from each region.

[me]

The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

[ronk]

I would be interesting to take all 25 currently ranked teams and capture wins against "top 25 caliber" teams...as I have done for the Central Region.  I am pretty sure we'd find teams that have floated up the poll with 0 or 1 of these types of wins.

Good idea! I'll do the Mid-Atlantic later today before the Eagles take the field.

[Titan Q]

The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

Teams that could legitimately get Top 25 consideration/votes?

It's OK if there is subjectivity to it.  I don't think that gray area is as big/problematic as it might seem. 

I would love to see each region...that would be cool.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

I guess I've got the Great Lakes... honestly have no predictions on how it'll turn out once I actually look at the teams