Top 25 talk

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?

Because all of the D3hoops.com ORV teams are on at least one pollster's top 25 ballot.

That's not really an answer. This is giving more credence to biased humans than objective data-driven formulas.

But the formulas are only as good as those pesky humans that make them. If they were truly objective I'd think that the computers would spit out pretty much the same rankings.

[Smitty Oom]

Smitty, let's take all the non-D3 wins out...that will get too messy.

Great job, man...thank you!

Haha so you don't think beating a good D2 team is significant?

It is not primary consideration for the selection committee, so unfortunately no it is not significant to the exercise.

[Smitty Oom]

Fair point. I think it's that I'm used to Massey updating more frequently than this that causes me to think it's far out of date.

For my list I'm listing three types of results... wins over good teams, losses to good teams (good teams being defined as teams that are on my consideration list for this exercise and similar teams from other regions), and losses to weaker teams (basically around .500 and worse)
It's pretty obvious who #1 in the GL is... after that it's a cluster.

I just decided to go with the same format from Q. I also have the same 'good losses' and 'bad losses' but plan to use those in a "West Region" thread I will start soon, updating the full resumes of the top west teams.

[Titan Q]

Smitty, let's take all the non-D3 wins out...that will get too messy.

Great job, man...thank you!

Haha so you don't think beating a good D2 team is significant?

I do.  But I think it gets messy.

[Titan Q]

Smitty Oom's West Region
1. Whitman Blues (17-0, 8-0 NWC) - vs. Occidental, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Ohio Wesleyan (Las Vegas), vs. Whitworth
2. St. John's Johnnies (14-1, 10-0 MIAC) - vs. Bethel, at Augsburg
3. Whitworth Pirates (15-2, 7-1 NWC) - vs. North Central
4. Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (16-2, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Wartburg
5. Loras Duhawks (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Nebraska Wesleyan, at Buena Vista
6. Augsburg Auggies (13-4, 8-4 MIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. Wartburg (Las vegas), at Bethel
7. Bethel Royals (12-4, 7-4 MIAC) - at Augsburg
8. Buena Vista Beavers (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - at Nebraska Wesleyan
9. Wartburg Knights (12-5, 5-3 IIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Buena Vista
10. Occidental Tigers (14-2, 7-0 SCIAC) -

Titan Q's Central Region
1. Wash U (14-2, 5-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, vs Ohio Northern, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at Buena Vista, at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

[Smitty Oom]

Algorithms or humans... it doesn't matter, I really like this. Hope we can get each region covered!

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

The Great Lakes is a muddled pile of sludge. After Wittenberg there should be a couple blank spots in the rankings. There's three teams with 3 losses (one because of a weak schedule) and then everyone else with 4 or more losses. Sort of like the Central region but worse.
I'll probably come up with a top 10 tomorrow because my brain hurts from trying to sort out this mess for so long.

[Titan Q]

The Great Lakes is a muddled pile of sludge. After Wittenberg there should be a couple blank spots in the rankings. There's three teams with 3 losses (one because of a weak schedule) and then everyone else with 4 or more losses. Sort of like the Central region but worse.
I'll probably come up with a top 10 tomorrow because my brain hurts from trying to sort out this mess for so long.

Grind through it, FC..we need ya!

[me]

Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?

Because all of the D3hoops.com ORV teams are on at least one pollster's top 25 ballot.

That's not really an answer. This is giving more credence to biased humans than objective data-driven formulas.

But the formulas are only as good as those pesky humans that make them. If they were truly objective I'd think that the computers would spit out pretty much the same rankings.

Some formulas are better than others, sure.

I'm pretty sure the guy that got picked to be part the NCAA I-A championship's selections would have a pretty decent one, though. Call me crazy.

[me]

Thanks for all the -k's, easily offended people.

I've deleted most of my posts and am washing my hands of this pointless exercise. Do your worst.

Titan gives himself away when he said he's not interested in clusters. He's interested in an inaccurate, subjective heuristic that confirms human biases.

Whatever, I'm out.

[Titan Q]

Thanks for all the -k's, easily offended people.

I've deleted most of my posts and am washing my hands of this pointless exercise. Do your worst.

Titan gives himself away when he said he's not interested in clusters. He's interested in an inaccurate, subjective heuristic that confirms human biases.

Whatever, I'm out.

I am just trying to rank some basketball teams without a lot of drama.  That is all, dude.

[Greek Tragedy]

Smitty Oom's West Region
1. Whitman Blues (17-0, 8-0 NWC) - vs. Occidental, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Ohio Wesleyan (Las Vegas), vs. Whitworth
2. St. John's Johnnies (14-1, 10-0 MIAC) - vs. Bethel, at Augsburg
3. Whitworth Pirates (15-2, 7-1 NWC) - vs. North Central
4. Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (16-2, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Wartburg
5. Loras Duhawks (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Nebraska Wesleyan, at Buena Vista
6. Augsburg Auggies (13-4, 8-4 MIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. Wartburg (Las vegas), at Bethel
7. Bethel Royals (12-4, 7-4 MIAC) - at Augsburg
8. Buena Vista Beavers (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - at Nebraska Wesleyan
9. Wartburg Knights (12-5, 5-3 IIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Buena Vista
10. Occidental Tigers (14-2, 7-0 SCIAC) -

Titan Q's Central Region
1. Wash U (13-2, 4-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, vs Ohio Northern, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at Buena Vista, at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

[Titan Q]

Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

[me]

Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

Are they not the same thing? And if not isn't that admitting the entire problem with the polls?

Y'all can take back all those -k's now. Y'all aren't even in the right thread for your pointless biased list-making that totally has nothing to do with Pool C.

[Titan Q]

Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

Are they not the same thing?

Y'all can take back all those -k's now. Y'all aren't even in the right thread for your pointless biased list-making that totally has nothing to do with Pool C.

The D3hoops.com Top 25 and Pool C rankings are completely different things, me.

On the exercise I'm advocating for here related to the Top 25, I simply believe it helps a lot to take a look at each region, and try to get the order right by region.  It helps to look at things in smaller chunks (regions) when trying to sort out so many teams.