Top 25 talk

Started by Lurker, March 23, 2005, 09:02:04 AM

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FCGrizzliesGrad

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:16:54 PM
Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?


Because all of the D3hoops.com ORV teams are on at least one pollster's top 25 ballot.

That's not really an answer. This is giving more credence to biased humans than objective data-driven formulas.
But the formulas are only as good as those pesky humans that make them. If they were truly objective I'd think that the computers would spit out pretty much the same rankings.
.

Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC, ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, MIAC, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

Smitty Oom

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:37:04 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:35:12 PM
Smitty, let's take all the non-D3 wins out...that will get too messy.

Great job, man...thank you!

Haha so you don't think beating a good D2 team is significant?

It is not primary consideration for the selection committee, so unfortunately no it is not significant to the exercise.

Smitty Oom

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 02:35:32 PM
Fair point. I think it's that I'm used to Massey updating more frequently than this that causes me to think it's far out of date.

For my list I'm listing three types of results... wins over good teams, losses to good teams (good teams being defined as teams that are on my consideration list for this exercise and similar teams from other regions), and losses to weaker teams (basically around .500 and worse)
It's pretty obvious who #1 in the GL is... after that it's a cluster.

I just decided to go with the same format from Q. I also have the same 'good losses' and 'bad losses' but plan to use those in a "West Region" thread I will start soon, updating the full resumes of the top west teams.

Titan Q

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:37:04 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:35:12 PM
Smitty, let's take all the non-D3 wins out...that will get too messy.

Great job, man...thank you!

Haha so you don't think beating a good D2 team is significant?

I do.  But I think it gets messy.

Titan Q

#11524
Smitty Oom's West Region
1. Whitman Blues (17-0, 8-0 NWC) - vs. Occidental, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Ohio Wesleyan (Las Vegas), vs. Whitworth
2. St. John's Johnnies (14-1, 10-0 MIAC) - vs. Bethel, at Augsburg
3. Whitworth Pirates (15-2, 7-1 NWC) - vs. North Central
4. Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (16-2, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Wartburg
5. Loras Duhawks (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Nebraska Wesleyan, at Buena Vista
6. Augsburg Auggies (13-4, 8-4 MIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. Wartburg (Las vegas), at Bethel
7. Bethel Royals (12-4, 7-4 MIAC) - at Augsburg
8. Buena Vista Beavers (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - at Nebraska Wesleyan
9. Wartburg Knights (12-5, 5-3 IIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Buena Vista
10. Occidental Tigers (14-2, 7-0 SCIAC) -

Titan Q's Central Region
1. Wash U (14-2, 5-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, vs Ohio Northern, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at Buena Vista, at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

Smitty Oom

Algorithms or humans... it doesn't matter, I really like this. Hope we can get each region covered!

FCGrizzliesGrad

The Great Lakes is a muddled pile of sludge. After Wittenberg there should be a couple blank spots in the rankings. There's three teams with 3 losses (one because of a weak schedule) and then everyone else with 4 or more losses. Sort of like the Central region but worse.
I'll probably come up with a top 10 tomorrow because my brain hurts from trying to sort out this mess for so long.
.

Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC, ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, MIAC, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

Titan Q

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 03:06:37 PM
The Great Lakes is a muddled pile of sludge. After Wittenberg there should be a couple blank spots in the rankings. There's three teams with 3 losses (one because of a weak schedule) and then everyone else with 4 or more losses. Sort of like the Central region but worse.
I'll probably come up with a top 10 tomorrow because my brain hurts from trying to sort out this mess for so long.

Grind through it, FC..we need ya! :)

me

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:16:54 PM
Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?


Because all of the D3hoops.com ORV teams are on at least one pollster's top 25 ballot.

That's not really an answer. This is giving more credence to biased humans than objective data-driven formulas.
But the formulas are only as good as those pesky humans that make them. If they were truly objective I'd think that the computers would spit out pretty much the same rankings.

Some formulas are better than others, sure.

I'm pretty sure the guy that got picked to be part the NCAA I-A championship's selections would have a pretty decent one, though. Call me crazy.

me

#11529
Thanks for all the -k's, easily offended people.

I've deleted most of my posts and am washing my hands of this pointless exercise. Do your worst.

Titan gives himself away when he said he's not interested in clusters. He's interested in an inaccurate, subjective heuristic that confirms human biases.

Whatever, I'm out.

Titan Q

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Thanks for all the -k's, easily offended people.

I've deleted most of my posts and am washing my hands of this pointless exercise. Do your worst.

Titan gives himself away when he said he's not interested in clusters. He's interested in an inaccurate, subjective heuristic that confirms human biases.

Whatever, I'm out.

I am just trying to rank some basketball teams without a lot of drama.  That is all, dude.

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:50:16 PM
Smitty Oom's West Region
1. Whitman Blues (17-0, 8-0 NWC) - vs. Occidental, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Ohio Wesleyan (Las Vegas), vs. Whitworth
2. St. John's Johnnies (14-1, 10-0 MIAC) - vs. Bethel, at Augsburg
3. Whitworth Pirates (15-2, 7-1 NWC) - vs. North Central
4. Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (16-2, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Wartburg
5. Loras Duhawks (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - vs. Nebraska Wesleyan, at Buena Vista
6. Augsburg Auggies (13-4, 8-4 MIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. Wartburg (Las vegas), at Bethel
7. Bethel Royals (12-4, 7-4 MIAC) - at Augsburg
8. Buena Vista Beavers (14-4, 7-2 IIAC) - at Nebraska Wesleyan
9. Wartburg Knights (12-5, 5-3 IIAC) - vs. Loras, vs. UW-Stevens Point (Las Vegas), vs. Buena Vista
10. Occidental Tigers (14-2, 7-0 SCIAC) -

Titan Q's Central Region
1. Wash U (13-2, 4-0 UAA) - vs Tufts, vs Ohio Northern, at Illinois Wesleyan
2. Illinois Wesleyan (14-3, 7-1 CCIW) - at North Central, at Wheaton, vs Augustana
3. Augustana (14-3, 6-2 CCIW) - vs North Central, vs UW-Stevens Point (neutral), at Wash U
4. UW-Stevens Point (12-5, 6-0 WIAC) - at Buena Vista, at UW-River Falls, at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
5. Wheaton (13-4, 6-2 CCIW) - vs Baldwin Wallace, at Whitworth, at Augustana
6. UW-River Falls (12-4, 3-3 WIAC) - at UW-Whitewater, vs UW-Platteville
7. UW-Whitewater (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) at UW-Oshkosh
8. UW-Oshkosh (13-4, 3-3 WIAC) - vs Augustana, vs UW-River Falls
9. UW-Platteville (14-3, 4-2 WIAC) - vs UW-Oshkosh
10. North Central (12-5, 5-3 CCIW) - vs Wheaton

Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?
Pointers
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TGHIJGSTO!!!

Titan Q

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2018, 03:36:19 PM


Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

me

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2018, 03:36:19 PM


Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

Are they not the same thing? And if not isn't that admitting the entire problem with the polls?

Y'all can take back all those -k's now. Y'all aren't even in the right thread for your pointless biased list-making that totally has nothing to do with Pool C.

Titan Q

#11534
Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2018, 03:36:19 PM


Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

Are they not the same thing?

Y'all can take back all those -k's now. Y'all aren't even in the right thread for your pointless biased list-making that totally has nothing to do with Pool C.

The D3hoops.com Top 25 and Pool C rankings are completely different things, me.

On the exercise I'm advocating for here related to the Top 25, I simply believe it helps a lot to take a look at each region, and try to get the order right by region.  It helps to look at things in smaller chunks (regions) when trying to sort out so many teams.