Top 25 talk

[Rofrog]

Thanks guys for the explanation.That is why you guys are the experts.Sos where would I get those numbers for women also?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks guys for the explanation.That is why you guys are the experts.Sos where would I get those numbers for women also?

Check D3hoops.com and under "news" for women you will find it.

[Gregory Sager]

#1 Whitman 100
#4 Whitworth 99

Fantastic game. Fantastic atmosphere. Fantastic production -- multiple cameras, excellent shots.

This was a showcase for D3 if I've ever seen one.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Whitman up 2 inbounding with under 25 seconds left... slips out of bounds...
Ben College hits a 3 to give Whitworth a 99-98 lead.
Tim Howell drives and gets the foul with 0.9 on the clock and hits both free throws to take the lead.
Whitworth had a final shot but it was partially blocked.

[BluesBrother]

Wow, what a game! Howell is unfazed in the huge moments (slip notwithstanding). Butler did it all. Whitworth played a great game and came up just short. I'm glad Whitman probably won't have to go to Spokane again this year.

[deiscanton]

#1 Whitman 100
#4 Whitworth 99

Fantastic game. Fantastic atmosphere. Fantastic production -- multiple cameras, excellent shots.

This was a showcase for D3 if I've ever seen one.

It was worth staying up to watch this one.  I fell asleep and missed the 1st meeting of the season between these two, but I am glad that I did not make that mistake this time.

This game deserves to be archived and made available to watch again for those people who could not stay up to watch it-- at the very least, some video highlights should be made available.

However, because this game was a local TV broadcast streamed over the web, the TV station and the Northwest Conference probably won't allow a full game replay to be made available for viewing.

[deiscanton]

Video highlights of last night's game between #1 Whitman and #4 Whitworth are now available courtesy of the Spokane, WA local TV station SWX Right Now.

Sorry, I can't directly give you the links, but I can give you the link to their video page:

swxrightnow.com/category/160222/video-center

From there, look for the clips on their latest video page for (1) Whitman vs Whitworth men's basketball highlights, and (2) Whitworth loses heartbreaker to Whitman, 100-99.

These highlights are also available on SWX Right Now's Facebook page.

[deiscanton]

Whitworth game recap:

Whitman edges Whitworth 100-99 in NWC thriller

Whitman game recap:

Howell free throws sink Pirates

Both of these game recaps are must-reads.  Whitman's recap really gave a flavor of the game for people who could not stay up to watch it.

[nescac1]

Wow, just watched that highlight.  As a totally neutral observer, I really, really don't like that last foul call, especially in that situation.  Looked like the defender was in excellent position and the refs bailed out a wild drive not even in the direction of the basket.  To lose the game on that one is brutal. 

[Gregory Sager]

Disagree. Kyle Roach is a great player, but he made a mistake in sliding over to impede Tim Howell on that final drive, because, as you said, Howell was driving too far to the right to get to the rim. Roach would've been better off just holding his ground and forcing Howell to shoot a pull-up. It was clearly a blocking foul. I thought so last night, and I'm even more convinced after watching the replay a few times this morning.

As for the decision to make the call, the ref did his job properly. A good official makes the same call with 0.9 seconds left that he would make in the previous 39:59.1. The game situation is irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not it was a foul. It was, and he made the right call.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Wow, what a game! Howell is unfazed in the huge moments (slip notwithstanding). Butler did it all. Whitworth played a great game and came up just short. I'm glad Whitman probably won't have to go to Spokane again this year.

Don't agree with your Howell comment. If the foul isn't called, he looks like a fool for trying that stunt. He got lucky.

Wow, just watched that highlight.  As a totally neutral observer, I really, really don't like that last foul call, especially in that situation.  Looked like the defender was in excellent position and the refs bailed out a wild drive not even in the direction of the basket.  To lose the game on that one is brutal. 

It was a foul. Maybe the whistled it on the wrong guy, but I saw the big man come over and body check Howell in the hips and upper body. The replay showed me that. Howell is lucky the foul was called, but Whitworth has to be a little more careful there. Roach was also a bit too close and looked to have an arm bar pushing Howell.

Agreed with Sager, let's not play the game of "swallow the whistle" late when the clock is running down. That isn't fair to the game by any stretch and should never be an expectation.

The broadcasters at times fairly noted odd calls, but they also got stuck in a rut with it and missed the fact that some calls (or non-calls) were spot on. Their discussion of the block on the break-away dunk by Roach was laughable. It was all-ball and they just couldn't admit it. They also liked to look at the play on the ball on blocking calls when the body or other hand was pushing. Officials weren't great, but they weren't as bad as the broadcasters were making them out to be.

[nescac1]

Fair points.  I'm not one for swallow-the-whistle, I just think that if it can go either way, I don't like to bail out a player who is not in any sort of position to score on a game-deciding call.  If it's a clear foul, though, yes it should be called no matter what.  I didn't see a clear foul there, I thought a good play by the defender to move his feet and get to that spot, but admittedly it is a very tough bang-bang sort of call.  I didn't watch the game, just saw that replay so can't put it in context of other calls. 

Not sure what is meant by the Howell's "stunt" but that is of course a response to some other commentator ...

[Onward on, John Carroll]

Latest Top 25 with a familiar face returning in the No. 24 spot.

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week10

I think this team breaks out in hives when they earn a ranking in the Top 25.  This almost guarantees that they will drop a game to either BW or ONU. 

Dropping both wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either. 

It is all about perspective, isn't it, F&P?  I hope to see your Pioneers in about two and a half weeks.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Fair points.  I'm not one for swallow-the-whistle, I just think that if it can go either way, I don't like to bail out a player who is not in any sort of position to score on a game-deciding call.  If it's a clear foul, though, yes it should be called no matter what.  I didn't see a clear foul there, I thought a good play by the defender to move his feet and get to that spot, but admittedly it is a very tough bang-bang sort of call.  I didn't watch the game, just saw that replay so can't put it in context of other calls. 

Not sure what is meant by the Howell's "stunt" but that is of course a response to some other commentator ...

While one defender may have been moving his feet well, I saw him pushing with his arm as well. The other defender was also moving his feet, but still moving them as he ran into Howell. Yes, it bailed Howell out, but it was a two-shot situation there no matter what. If Howell is just driving and doesn't throw up a shot... he still got fouled and still has two free throws.

As for Howell's actions... what I saw was his exuberance and pounding of his feet after making both free throws. It would be a very long list and a lot of time pointing out every single player in Division III and out that has done that in a big moment. I give leash on those things... to a degree. He didn't get to that degree.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow, what a game! Howell is unfazed in the huge moments (slip notwithstanding). Butler did it all. Whitworth played a great game and came up just short. I'm glad Whitman probably won't have to go to Spokane again this year.

Don't agree with your Howell comment. If the foul isn't called, he looks like a fool for trying that stunt. He got lucky.

He also would've looked like a fool if Roach hadn't moved laterally to his left and fouled him. As nescac1 pointed out, Howell wasn't even heading in the direction of the basket. He was driving too far to the right.

As for Butler, he's clearly an extremely talented player. But he also plays out of control a bit too often, and he's a terrible free-throw shooter.

Wow, just watched that highlight.  As a totally neutral observer, I really, really don't like that last foul call, especially in that situation.  Looked like the defender was in excellent position and the refs bailed out a wild drive not even in the direction of the basket.  To lose the game on that one is brutal. 

It was a foul. Maybe the whistled it on the wrong guy, but I saw the big man come over and body check Howell in the hips and upper body. The replay showed me that. Howell is lucky the foul was called, but Whitworth has to be a little more careful there. Roach was also a bit too close and looked to have an arm bar pushing Howell.

Agreed with Sager, let's not play the game of "swallow the whistle" late when the clock is running down. That isn't fair to the game by any stretch and should never be an expectation.

The broadcasters at times fairly noted odd calls, but they also got stuck in a rut with it and missed the fact that some calls (or non-calls) were spot on. Their discussion of the block on the break-away dunk by Roach was laughable. It was all-ball and they just couldn't admit it. They also liked to look at the play on the ball on blocking calls when the body or other hand was pushing. Officials weren't great, but they weren't as bad as the broadcasters were making them out to be.

Yeah, I thought the same thing on both counts.

Fair points.  I'm not one for swallow-the-whistle, I just think that if it can go either way, I don't like to bail out a player who is not in any sort of position to score on a game-deciding call.  If it's a clear foul, though, yes it should be called no matter what.  I didn't see a clear foul there, I thought a good play by the defender to move his feet and get to that spot, but admittedly it is a very tough bang-bang sort of call.  I didn't watch the game, just saw that replay so can't put it in context of other calls.

It was clearer on the broadcast last night. The replay posted this morning used the overhead angle, while the broadcast replay last night used the angle from the endline camera at the other end of the floor. It was much more apparent from that angle that Roach was moving laterally into Howell's path when the two made contact. That behind-the-play angle was the view that the ref who blew the whistle had as well, so he clearly saw that it was a blocking foul and not a could-go-either-way-I'll-just-pick-an-offender sort of collision.