Top 25 talk

[WUPHF]

This John Carroll at Capital game has been worth watching. 

Capital leads 65-59.

7:18 left in the game if you happen to be reading this.

[rlgyank]

If D3H was a stock market (new fantasy game?) set by the polls, I would be buying Nebraska Wesleyan, the OAC, MIAC, and CCIW.  On the flip side, I would sell Emory, York, E. Connecticut, Lycoming, and Salem State.

It is absolutely amazing to me that Nebraska Wesleyan did not get any votes in the poll. I am new to the D3 scene as of last year, but it looks like to me that the top 25 is just like a good ole boys club. In the week 10 poll, 42 teams received votes. Those 42 teams went on to lose 26 games during the week. Of those 42 teams, 39 of them received votes in week 11. Only 4 new teams received votes. Nebraska Wesleyan was 21-3 when the poll was taken. Of their 3 losses, 2 were in OT on the road to the 2nd & 4th place teams in the conference. They are leading, by the 2 computer models that I know of, the 3rd or 4th best conference. They are 5th & 6th in the 2 computer models. I realize that their SOS is not the greatest, but it isn't like they are barely beating those teams, they are 2nd in the country in scoring margin. I know they tried to schedule some good teams this year, but it has not worked out that way. The 8 D3 non conference teams that they have on their schedule this year had a winning pct. last year of .573, this year that pct. has dropped to .385. Comparison scores on not perfect by any means, but I will throw out the following anyway. Washington University beat Central 87-83 at home. Augustana beat Central at Central 82-73. Nebraska Wesleyan won at Central 99-86 and won at home against Central 104-80. York (PA) won at Marymount 88-76 and at home against Marymount 81-58. Johns Hopkins beat Marymount at home 82-60. Nebraska Wesleyan won at Marymount 87-46. Wisconsin - Stephens Point lost to Wartburg on a neutral court 66-75. Nebraska Wesleyan won at home against Wartburg 99-60 and won at Wartburg 90-81.

It doesn't really matter what the D3 poll says, what matters is what the NCAA selection committee thinks. And thankfully they think more of Nebraska Wesleyan than the 25 members of the poll. Maybe 1 day some of the IIAC teams will become a member of the club.

[WUPHF]

Capital gets the upset over John Carroll if there is such a thing in 2017-2018. The final score: 85-80.

[Ralph Turner]

If D3H was a stock market (new fantasy game?) set by the polls, I would be buying Nebraska Wesleyan, the OAC, MIAC, and CCIW.  On the flip side, I would sell Emory, York, E. Connecticut, Lycoming, and Salem State.

It is absolutely amazing to me that Nebraska Wesleyan did not get any votes in the poll. I am new to the D3 scene as of last year, but it looks like to me that the top 25 is just like a good ole boys club. In the week 10 poll, 42 teams received votes. Those 42 teams went on to lose 26 games during the week. Of those 42 teams, 39 of them received votes in week 11. Only 4 new teams received votes. Nebraska Wesleyan was 21-3 when the poll was taken. Of their 3 losses, 2 were in OT on the road to the 2nd & 4th place teams in the conference. They are leading, by the 2 computer models that I know of, the 3rd or 4th best conference. They are 5th & 6th in the 2 computer models. I realize that their SOS is not the greatest, but it isn't like they are barely beating those teams, they are 2nd in the country in scoring margin. I know they tried to schedule some good teams this year, but it has not worked out that way. The 8 D3 non conference teams that they have on their schedule this year had a winning pct. last year of .573, this year that pct. has dropped to .385. Comparison scores on not perfect by any means, but I will throw out the following anyway. Washington University beat Central 87-83 at home. Augustana beat Central at Central 82-73. Nebraska Wesleyan won at Central 99-86 and won at home against Central 104-80. York (PA) won at Marymount 88-76 and at home against Marymount 81-58. Johns Hopkins beat Marymount at home 82-60. Nebraska Wesleyan won at Marymount 87-46. Wisconsin - Stephens Point lost to Wartburg on a neutral court 66-75. Nebraska Wesleyan won at home against Wartburg 99-60 and won at Wartburg 90-81.

It doesn't really matter what the D3 poll says, what matters is what the NCAA selection committee thinks. And thankfully they think more of Nebraska Wesleyan than the 25 members of the poll. Maybe 1 day some of the IIAC teams will become a member of the club.

Welcome to the Boards. Neb Wes was off the radar for so long.  The voters probably don't have a real handle on them yet. This is by far the best NebWes team in years.

We followed Neb Wes all those years that it was in D-3 Pool B while playing in the Great Plains AC.  There was little during those years for us to consider.

The other dynamic is that each voter only casts for his/her best 25.  With the 64-team format, a voter can legitimately omit 7 first round playoff winners for the 2018 tourney without compromising his/her ballot.

I for one am glad to get NebWes into a conference and out of Pool B. Best wishes in the post-season.

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

[Gregory Sager]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I struggle with the fact that Nebraska Wesleyan built much of its resume against a pretty below-average opponents list... and then as much as we can point to good wins in the conference, we can also point to head-scratching results (i.e. Simpson in OT; Buena Vista 91-75).

I have thought that Nebraska Wesleyan had the potential of having a pretty good team, but hard to really gauge how good they really are. I have looked at them as an option a LOT of times. I have been leaning more on NWC in the last few weeks, though. They were one of the last teams I didn't vote for last week.

As for the "good old boys" comment... there isn't really any proof there. We have had a host of first-time Top 25 squads this year and there have been a lot of teams who have climbed to heights they have never seen in the Top 25 in their history. The men's Top 25 has been one of the most wide-open and constantly moving polls of most sports in Division III. That said, voters don't just toss their votes around on anyone. It may seem that from time to time and this occasion one individual may not realize that... but it does tend to be true.

There is an entire Top 25 archive you can look through. You will see just how many teams in the history of the Top 25 have earned their way on the poll (207 to be sure) - including Nebraska Wesleyan in its history: http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/archive

Stick around following DIII more and you can see how this develops. We welcome you to the boards and to the division - to some degree - but also stick around so we can get a better idea of Nebraska Wesleyan and you can appreciate how it all comes together a bit more.

[Pat Coleman]

Welcome to the Boards. Neb Wes was off the radar for so long.  The voters probably don't have a real handle on them yet. This is by far the best NebWes team in years.

While this is a nice storyline, Ralph, the voters pay more attention than this. Dave has already spoken at length about this but I'll boil it down. Here's what a voter sees when looking at Nebraska Wesleyan's resume:

Nov. 17   7:30 PM   at North Central (Minn.) (7-18) •   W, 122-84
Nov. 18   5:00 PM   at Northwestern (Minn.) (13-12) •   W, 78-67
Nov. 24   7:00 PM   Iowa Wesleyan (5-20) •   W, 117-54
Nov. 25   5:00 PM   Bethany Lutheran (17-8) •   W, 95-78
Four games to open the season against the UMAC, the worst conference in the region.

... removed the GPAC team. Glad it's just one non-Division III opponent.

Dec. 10   12:00 PM   at Austin (4-21) •   W, 92-67
Dec. 17   2:00 PM   at Gallaudet (9-16) •   W, 99-77
Dec. 18   7:00 PM   at Marymount (8-17) •   W, 87-46
Dec. 30   4:00 PM   at Grinnell (13-11) •   W, 121-103

Is Grinnell the best non-conference team NWU faced?

With a non-conference slate like this, and an average (to below-average) conference, it's hard to get onto too many ballots.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Not to mention inconsistent play.  There were games where NebWes looked lights out, but there were other games where they looked really out of sync.  You factor in that defense has also been spotty and it's tough to vote for them.  Surviving the IIAC on top is helpful.  We'll have to see how things are this week.  They're certainly in the mix for votes, but they haven't done anything to earn the benefit of the doubt just yet.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Whitman	25-0	def. Willamette, 93-67; def. Linfield, 100-69
#2	600	Washington U.	22-2	def. Case Western Reserve, 101-60; def. Carnegie Mellon, 86-71
#3	546	St. John's	23-2	won at Gustavus Adolphus, 78-73; won at St. Thomas, 57-50
#4	534	Whitworth	22-3	def. Linfield, 86-75; def. Willamette, 76-60
#5	526	Wittenberg	23-2	LOST at Ohio Wesleyan, 80-85; def. #16 Wooster, 78-77 OT
#6	525	UW-Platteville	22-3	def. T#32 UW-Whitewater, 70-66; def. T#42 UW-River Falls, 81-69
#7	408	Emory	20-4	def. New York University, 96-85; def. Brandeis, 82-69
#8	391	York (Pa.)	21-4	def. St. Mary's (Md.), 81-78; LOST at Christopher Newport, 71-81
#9	376	Williams	20-5	def. Trinity (Conn.), 73-71
#10	362	Augustana	19-5	def. North Park, 77-60
#11	328	Eastern Connecticut	22-3	won at Western Connecticut, 106-82; def. Southern Maine, 89-42
#12	321	Swarthmore	21-4	def. Haverford, 81-69; def. #24 Franklin and Marshall, 58-56
#13	285	Middlebury	19-6	LOST at #17 Wesleyan, 65-73
#14	266	UW-Oshkosh	19-6	LOST at #19 UW-Stevens Point, 70-77; won at UW-Stout, 91-70
#15	265	Hamilton	22-3	def. SUNY-Cobleskill, 84-51; def. Tufts, 91-82
#16	211	Wooster	20-5	def. Kenyon, 81-79; LOST at #5 Wittenberg, 77-78 OT
#17	206	Wesleyan	20-5	def. #13 Middlebury, 73-65
#18	155	John Carroll	20-5	def. Heidelberg, 91-78; LOST at Capital, 80-85
#19	144	UW-Stevens Point	17-8	def. #14 UW-Oshkosh, 77-70; LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 54-55
#20	126	Lycoming	19-6	LOST to Lebanon Valley, 79-82; LOST at T#39 Albright, 80-87 OT
#21	120	Hobart	21-4	def. Vassar, 79-74; LOST to Union, 77-80
#22	114	Johns Hopkins	21-4	won at Washington College, 81-63; won at Haverford, 70-52
#23	105	Illinois Wesleyan	19-5	won at Millikin, 65-56; won at Carthage, 92-63
#24	94	Franklin and Marshall	20-5	def. Dickinson, 64-57; LOST at #12 Swarthmore, 56-58
#25	87	Salem State	22-3	def. Massachusetts College, 91-81

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	63	Nichols	22-3	def. Eastern Nazarene, 93-83; def. Wentworth, 81-72
#27	62	MIT	20-5	won at Clark, 85-42; def. WPI, 71-59
T#28	61	Cabrini	22-3	won at Immaculata, 87-75; def. Clarks Summit, 97-70
T#28	61	Plattsburgh State	20-4	def. SUNY Oneonta, 95-74; def. SUNY New Paltz, 102-69
#30	52	Marietta	20-5	won at Muskingum, 107-100 OT; won at Ohio Northern, 88-68
#31	22	St. Olaf	19-6	LOST at Carleton, 58-69; won at Concordia-Moorhead, 90-60
T#32	20	Amherst	17-8	def. Bowdoin, 71-70
T#32	20	UW-Whitewater	16-9	LOST at #6 UW-Platteville, 66-70; LOST to UW-La Crosse, 55-60
#34	19	New Jersey City	19-7	LOST at Stockton, 66-87; LOST to William Paterson, 78-81
#35	7	Sul Ross State	19-6	LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 78-79; def. Concordia (Texas), 84-73
#36	4	Emory and Henry	19-6	LOST to Washington and Lee, 87-92; won at Eastern Mennonite, 74-56
T#37	3	Juniata	21-4	won at Goucher, 82-71; def. Drew, 73-64
T#37	3	Lehman	21-4	def. Hunter, 66-52
T#39	2	Albright	19-5	def. #20 Lycoming, 87-80 OT
T#39	2	Keene State	17-8	LOST at Plymouth State, 75-84 OT; won at Mass-Dartmouth, 73-71
T#39	2	Maryville (Tenn.)	19-6	won at Piedmont, 75-72; LOST to Huntingdon, 93-94 OT; def. LaGrange, 84-58
T#42	1	Randolph-Macon	18-7	won at Hampden-Sydney, 67-56; LOST at Washington and Lee, 76-84
T#42	1	UW-River Falls	16-8	def. UW-Eau Claire, 77-61; LOST at #6 UW-Platteville, 69-81

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The final week of the 2017-18 season is upon us. In a week's time, the topic will be who has punched their tickets to the NCAA tournaments and who is hoping to get selected. This week... we don't know many of the answers and some questions have yet to be considered.

url=http://www.d3hoopsville.com]Hoopsville[/url] returns to the air LIVE this Sunday night with a jam-packed, and super-sized, edition. Dave welcomes guests from around the country and looks at a lot of the conference tournaments which are getting underway. Can some of the top teams take advantage of home-court advantage? Who may surprise? Who do some NOT want to see lose if they hope to make the tournament themselves?

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Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Tom Glynn, Nichols men's coach
- Anne Crutchfield, Emory & Henry women's coach
- Kevin Broderick, Nazareth men's coach
- Zach Otto-Fisher, UW-Superior interim women's coach
- Jon Prevo, No. 24 Rose-Hulman women's coach
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[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

New Top 25 is out: http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week12

[Ralph Turner]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

My bad! Of course the Sagerman would recall the 1985 game!  +1 to Sager!

[Mr. Ypsi]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

My bad! Of course the Sagerman would recall the 1985 game!  +1 to Sager!

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

[Pat Coleman]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

My bad! Of course the Sagerman would recall the 1985 game!  +1 to Sager!

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

From reading it in the alumni magazine months later. We all know.

[Mr. Ypsi]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

My bad! Of course the Sagerman would recall the 1985 game!  +1 to Sager!

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

From reading it in the alumni magazine months later. We all know.

Well, if you had started this site earlier ...