Top 25 talk

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

[Greek Tragedy]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

So basically, we should just blame the Texas schools. 

I don't know how the facilities are down there, but did they just not put in a bid because they think they don't have a shot at hosting?

[John Gleich]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that.

I heard that Whitworth is really concerned with their Fantasy league stock... 

[Greek Tragedy]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that.

I heard that Whitworth is really concerned with their Fantasy league stock... 

It is very concerning. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

So basically, we should just blame the Texas schools. 

Basically... yes. I am quite confident if one Texas school had put in to host... Whitworth would have at least been flown out and they would have made it work. There was some talk (I really can't say much more) that the NCAA was restricting things to three flights, the committee wanted more and got four. Three flights would have allowed it to work (off the top of my head).

[lmitzel]

For the CCIWers out there, how will Wheaton fair? They were the 4th best team in the conference and also were in and out of the regional rankings. They lose #2 scorer Samuelson, but return everyone else. Some guy named Francis might be able to carry the load (again). Can they leapfrog NCC and grab a Pool C bid next season? I haven't really looked into Carthage either.

I'd think Wheaton would be a team in contention even without Samuelson as long as Aston Francis keeps doing Aston Francis things and the rest of the team can continue to complement him like they did last year. Carthage is an interesting case. They have those young, talented bigs in Perry and Johnson plus should have a full year of Kienan Baltimore, but the question might be with their backcourt. They lose Derek Mason, but still have Jordan Thomas. If everybody's healthy they'll probably be in the mix too.

[Fifth and Putnam]

Just very, very quick thoughts on what I see moving into next year for the GL conferences:

OAC: Marietta returns everyone except their PG. John Carroll will be talented but lose some to graduation and I think ONU will drop off a bit despite returning Bruns. Way to early favorite: Marietta

MIAA: Hope only loses Hawkins and appears have a lot of really young talented pieces. Olivet also will be tough again next year but Hope is certainly the team to beat again next year. Hope's my early favorite.

AMCC: La Roche loses their big guy and a guard but will be a contender again but Behrend brings the entire cast back. Behrend is a team to watch next year. My pick: Behrend

PAC: Thomas More leaves the conference so this one opens up for someone new to take the crown. St. Vincent graduated a ton of talent and will need to rebuild as well. This conference is wide open next year. My pick: *shrugs*

NCAC: Wittenberg was supposed to be the favorite next year, not this year. A lot of young guys got a lot of experience winning basketball games this year. That will pay dividends next year as well. Witt is the pick.

HCAC: Hanover lose McKinney and Buck...MSJ loses Finley which is a big piece. Hulman brings back most everyone. This could be another tight race with multiple teams in it.  My pick: Hanover

[Gregory Sager]

As a Nebraska Wesleyan fan and an IIAC fan, I would throw Loras in there as a pre season top 25 team for next year. They only lose 1 senior. He was a starter but was not a major contributor, at least stats wise. I don't know about his leadership and things like that.

They should probably get some consideration for the top 25 in the season ending poll this year also.

Among those Loras returnees is All-Region second-team guard Josh Ruggles, who averaged 22.4 ppg and 4.7 rpg and had an assist:turnover ratio of nearly 3:1. If the d3hoops.com guys don't put Ruggles on their preseason All-American list next fall, then they're not doing their jobs. His running mate Ryan DeCario overaged 17.8 and 7.1. The Duhawks will be heard from next season.

One team that hasn't been mentioned thus far that really intrigues me is New Jersey City. The Gothic Knights, who made the D3 tourney field this month as an at-large, will return every player of consequence from this season's team, including All-American Sam Toney (20.6 and 9.7) and All-NJAC pick Lavonne Green (14.3). Don't sleep on the Knights.

Like they did in the 1st round? 

That was this year. Next year is next year.

Thirty-two teams lost in the first round this month. That doesn't mean that they're all doomed to failure next season.

For the CCIWers out there, how will Wheaton fair? They were the 4th best team in the conference and also were in and out of the regional rankings. They lose #2 scorer Samuelson, but return everyone else. Some guy named Francis might be able to carry the load (again). Can they leapfrog NCC and grab a Pool C bid next season? I haven't really looked into Carthage either.

Samuelson is a big loss. He would've been third in the nation in trey percentage if he'd made six more of them; somewhere in that gargantuan number of attempted treys by Francis should've been the dozen attempts he could've spared for Samuelson so that his running mate could've ranked among D3's official leaders. Samuelson came into the league as nothing more than a spot-up shooter with a quick release, but he left as a very well-rounded player who could score off the dribble or via cuts as well.

The other problems for Wheaton moving forward are getting consistent play out of their rotating cast of centers (Peterson, Spencer, Gunter, and Alioth) and finding a useful third guard, assuming that Michael Kvam will take the place of departing Luke Peters at the point, to spell Francis and Kvam.

Carthage returns an incredible amount of size in the low post in a pair of contrasting 6'11 guys, the endomorphic Brad Perry and the ectomorphic Sean Johnson. Thing is, Bosko Djurickovic can't play the two of them together. He doesn't really need to, as he has a rising star at PF in 6'5 Kienen Baltimore, and he's got a good shooting guard in 5'11 Jordan Thomas. But he really needs a PG; he might hand that job to inexperienced rising sophomore T.J. Best, and he might not. He doesn't have a lot of experienced guards, period. And he loses his do-everything small forward Brad Kruse, who was probably the most complete player in the CCIW this past season. The Red Men have some holes to fill.

Right now, I might give the nod for third place to Elmhurst. But a lot can (and will) change between now and November.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

So basically, we should just blame the Texas schools. 

Basically... yes. I am quite confident if one Texas school had put in to host... Whitworth would have at least been flown out and they would have made it work. There was some talk (I really can't say much more) that the NCAA was restricting things to three flights, the committee wanted more and got four. Three flights would have allowed it to work (off the top of my head).

The impression I got from my "gleaning" was that it's really in Whitman's court (or at least was this year) - if they hadn't put into host, they wouldn't have been in the same pod as Whitworth. They're essentially choosing whether they want to go on the road or potentially play Whitworth.

Of course, they haven't actually had to play each other in the tournament two straight years now, so maybe it's less of an issue.

[ronk]

 Provokes the strategy of no one of the geographical outliers bidding to host next year so that every one flies. 

[Greek Tragedy]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

So basically, we should just blame the Texas schools. 

Basically... yes. I am quite confident if one Texas school had put in to host... Whitworth would have at least been flown out and they would have made it work. There was some talk (I really can't say much more) that the NCAA was restricting things to three flights, the committee wanted more and got four. Three flights would have allowed it to work (off the top of my head).

The impression I got from my "gleaning" was that it's really in Whitman's court (or at least was this year) - if they hadn't put into host, they wouldn't have been in the same pod as Whitworth. They're essentially choosing whether they want to go on the road or potentially play Whitworth.

Of course, they haven't actually had to play each other in the tournament two straight years now, so maybe it's less of an issue.

I'm pretty sure I'm putting in a bid to host every year even if, heaven forbid, I have the possibility to play Whitworth in the 2nd round. Whitworth returns everyone, so who's to say Whitworth will be better than Whitman next year. I suppose we won't find that out for awhile!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I feel bad for Whitworth. They'll again play in the shadow of Whitman and their stock will fall in the fantasy leagues because of that. They return everyone and, I'm assuming, they'll get Lester back as well. The NCAA has to find out a way to separate the Whits the 1st weekend.

From what I have learned for weeks... the men's committee really, really wanted to split the Whits, but basically got handcuffed by the fact there were no schools who put into bid in Texas. The trickle-down affect of that was too much for the committee to overcome, understandably. However, there were strong indications they had planned to split them.

What would help is if both beefed up their criteria to help make the argument more than just a Top 25 one.

So basically, we should just blame the Texas schools. 

Basically... yes. I am quite confident if one Texas school had put in to host... Whitworth would have at least been flown out and they would have made it work. There was some talk (I really can't say much more) that the NCAA was restricting things to three flights, the committee wanted more and got four. Three flights would have allowed it to work (off the top of my head).

The impression I got from my "gleaning" was that it's really in Whitman's court (or at least was this year) - if they hadn't put into host, they wouldn't have been in the same pod as Whitworth. They're essentially choosing whether they want to go on the road or potentially play Whitworth.

Of course, they haven't actually had to play each other in the tournament two straight years now, so maybe it's less of an issue.

I'm pretty sure I'm putting in a bid to host every year even if, heaven forbid, I have the possibility to play Whitworth in the 2nd round. Whitworth returns everyone, so who's to say Whitworth will be better than Whitman next year. I suppose we won't find that out for awhile!

None of the three Texas schools put in to host - we heard rumor that was a strategic decision because they didn't want to play each other.  I'm sure there are pros and cons to both strategies.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First off.. the rumor was just that... a rumor. It came certainly from those who have experience in these things, but they were speculating and not basing it on anything but their experience. I talked to sources in Texas: the schools did not team up and not put in to host as a plan. The Texas schools happened to not put in bidding papers.

Not sure what you were able to glean, Ryan, but I did not get that impression at all from my conversations with people. The committee was very interested in moving the two apart from one another AND having Whitman host at the same time. I think if one of the Texas schools could have hosted (say Schreiner) it would have worked out perfectly from the committee's point of view. I do NOT think there is any indication that either Whit should NOT put in to host. I think it is a double-edged sword.

I also think it depends on the national committee. There are times in the past that no hosts seem available and the committee has called on a school to host despite the lack of paperwork. I can think of a few occasions in the second round, for example. However, in recent years the committees have seemed to decide they aren't going to reward schools who forget to do their due diligence nor are they going to arrange brackets and make decisions that could benefit others when not everyone is doing their jobs - as it where.

If both Whits don't put in to host, they very well could solve the bracketing problem... but they also force the idea of traveling back and forth from Washington three weekends in a row if that successful. That can wear a program out. They also risk leaving their home fans wanting and having to watch games at different times far away from their own homes. While the idea is novel and could result in some interesting ideas... I don't think it necessarily is in the best interest of those involved.

[TheOsprey]

As a Nebraska Wesleyan fan and an IIAC fan, I would throw Loras in there as a pre season top 25 team for next year. They only lose 1 senior. He was a starter but was not a major contributor, at least stats wise. I don't know about his leadership and things like that.

They should probably get some consideration for the top 25 in the season ending poll this year also.

Among those Loras returnees is All-Region second-team guard Josh Ruggles, who averaged 22.4 ppg and 4.7 rpg and had an assist:turnover ratio of nearly 3:1. If the d3hoops.com guys don't put Ruggles on their preseason All-American list next fall, then they're not doing their jobs. His running mate Ryan DeCario overaged 17.8 and 7.1. The Duhawks will be heard from next season.

One team that hasn't been mentioned thus far that really intrigues me is New Jersey City. The Gothic Knights, who made the D3 tourney field this month as an at-large, will return every player of consequence from this season's team, including All-American Sam Toney (20.6 and 9.7) and All-NJAC pick Lavonne Green (14.3). Don't sleep on the Knights.

Like they did in the 1st round? 

Like UWO vs Hope LAST year.

[Smitty Oom]

MIAC is laking a clear cut favorite or a great returning roster that will fight for a top 25 preseason selection, especially given the current landscape of D3 and some of the loaded rosters for next year.

- St. Olaf was quite the surprise this year, as they were picked to be 8th (I think...) in the preseason poll and ended up 2nd with an At-Large bid into the NCAA tourney. They lose their best all-around player, Robert Tobroxen who was great on both ends of the court, but return everyone else. I think they will probably be the MIAC favorite for next season and may even sneak into the bottom of some peoples preseason top 25, but for some reason I just can't fully buy into the Oles, even though they keep proving me wrong!

- The Johnnies lose a lot, especially C Tyler Weiss, but return enough players to be very good again next year. After a disappointing Junior year, if David Stokman finds his Sophomore year form Johnnies could find their way into the top 25 next year. They have a lot of talent on that roster still, especially in Jubie Alade who appears capable of taking on an expanded role next year after two very solid years of being an "instant offense" 6th man.

- Bethel could also play their way into the top 25 if things go right for the Royals next year. They return their 3 best players, but lose two seniors who were good players and they were not deep last year. Probably 3rd on my list in the MIAC, but they always seem to be in the mix as of late come February.

- Augsburg had a very good year, being in the Pool C discussion before winning the MIAC playoff, but this was largely attributed to 1st Team All-American Collin Olmsheid. He will be a tough one to replace... I think they will be alright, but no where near the top 25 mix like they were this year.

- UST can reload in a hurry and always bring in solid bball players year after year, but they need to prove that before they are in this top 25 discussion again.