Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I saw Wittenberg two years ago opening weekend at the Great Lakes Invitational at Marietta and my takeaway was "I think I just saw my 2019-2020 preseason #1."  That freshman class (and sophomores) now juniors and seniors are very talented and it's hard to replace the experience they've gotten playing so many minutes together these past two years.  I didn't end up voting them #1, but I've got them very high and expect great things from them.

Wooster got a couple of well-pedigreed transfers - seems like they want to make Coach's last year a good one.  I agree on Hempy; they could be dangerous.  I ended up putting Wabash third, I think - mostly because they didn't finish the year well and I try not to automatically elevate a team just because they bring so much back.  Sometimes a squad is what they'll be, even if they don't graduate anyone.  I want Wabash to prove something on the floor before I put a lot of weight behind them.

I voted Salem State as well.  Two really talented guys can take you a long way, especially in that conference.  Also, those are two guys more talented than we've seen in the MASCAC of late.  I'm willing to give that preseason love to proven players.  My weakness is definitely potential, so I try hard to edit myself early on "what could be" verses what we've actually seen.

Who are Wooster's transfers? Your stance on Wabash is mine exactly, let's see if they can replicate 9-0 again through the early conference slate - this time with 6 road games.

Wooster's roster is up.  Jaylen Franklin was a walkon at UMass.  He's a pretty talented kid - not sure how quickly he'll fit into the system, but Wooster could use the bodies and minutes for sure.  Bennington and Bishop are transfers as well, not sure how they'll figure in.  Heard good things about Adams, the freshman.

[CollegeGolf18]

I saw Wittenberg two years ago opening weekend at the Great Lakes Invitational at Marietta and my takeaway was "I think I just saw my 2019-2020 preseason #1."  That freshman class (and sophomores) now juniors and seniors are very talented and it's hard to replace the experience they've gotten playing so many minutes together these past two years.  I didn't end up voting them #1, but I've got them very high and expect great things from them.

Wooster got a couple of well-pedigreed transfers - seems like they want to make Coach's last year a good one.  I agree on Hempy; they could be dangerous.  I ended up putting Wabash third, I think - mostly because they didn't finish the year well and I try not to automatically elevate a team just because they bring so much back.  Sometimes a squad is what they'll be, even if they don't graduate anyone.  I want Wabash to prove something on the floor before I put a lot of weight behind them.

I voted Salem State as well.  Two really talented guys can take you a long way, especially in that conference.  Also, those are two guys more talented than we've seen in the MASCAC of late.  I'm willing to give that preseason love to proven players.  My weakness is definitely potential, so I try hard to edit myself early on "what could be" verses what we've actually seen.

Who are Wooster's transfers? Your stance on Wabash is mine exactly, let's see if they can replicate 9-0 again through the early conference slate - this time with 6 road games.

Wooster's roster is up.  Jaylen Franklin was a walkon at UMass.  He's a pretty talented kid - not sure how quickly he'll fit into the system, but Wooster could use the bodies and minutes for sure.  Bennington and Bishop are transfers as well, not sure how they'll figure in.  Heard good things about Adams, the freshman.

D1 walk-ons are always hard to gauge in my opinion.

Bennington played 4.8 minutes a game (9 games) scoring 2.0 PPG for a solid D2 program (Ashland, 23-7).
Bishop played in 26 games and scored 3.3 points a game for a bad NAIA (St. Xavier, 10-20)

Franklin appears to be a "senior" in terms of years in school but was just a manager for UMass his freshman year. So while he graduated high school in 2016, he is just a junior.

It seems like definite positions of need for Wooster, though.

[Titan Q]

Quick reaction - awesome preseason poll!

The only thing I noticed that seems weird to me is the Wheaton votes.

45 poll points for the team picked 6th in the CCIW.

https://cciw.org/news/2019/10/30/north-central-picked-to-win-2019-20-cciw-mens-basketball-title.aspx

1. North Central
2. Augustana
3. IWU
4. Carthage
5. Elmhurst
6. Wheaton
7. Carroll
7. Millikin
9. North Park

See, I have been telling you guys for 20 years it is a strong league!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Quick reaction - awesome preseason poll!

The only thing I noticed that seems weird to me is the Wheaton votes.

45 poll points for the team picked 6th in the CCIW.

https://cciw.org/news/2019/10/30/north-central-picked-to-win-2019-20-cciw-mens-basketball-title.aspx

1. North Central
2. Augustana
3. IWU
4. Carthage
5. Elmhurst
6. Wheaton
7. Carroll
7. Millikin
9. North Park

See, I have been telling you guys for 20 years it is a strong league!

Correct.  But why ZERO votes for those voted 3rd, 4th, and 5th?  Would a simpler explanation be that some of your fellow voters are idiots who don't realize that Aston Francis ain't walking thru that door?

[Gregory Sager]

"Idiots" is a little harsh. I suggested that they were guilty of skimping on their ballot preparation, and Bob used the word "lazy" to describe them. Not to speak for Bob, but I suspect that he'd agree with me that "idiots" is a bit over the top in describing the five Wheaton-voting pollsters.

[smedindy]

Maybe they think that Wheaton will be blessed by miracle performances?

[Titan Q]

"Idiots" is a little harsh. I suggested that they were guilty of skimping on their ballot preparation, and Bob used the word "lazy" to describe them. Not to speak for Bob, but I suspect that he'd agree with me that "idiots" is a bit over the top in describing the five Wheaton-voting pollsters.

"Idiots" is definitely way, way over the top. 

I've chosen to be snarky on this Wheaton thing simply because most voters spent hours on the preseason ballot...while a small number didn't do a great job reviewing/using the info Pat provided to them.  By poll-shaming the Wheaton voters I'm hoping they'll get locked in the rest of the way.

But they're certainly not idiots.  These are media types, or SIDS, or coaches who were handpicked by D3hoops.com because of how much they know about D3 MBB, and how much they care.  This basketball preseason time of year (October) is crazy for all three of these groups for different reasons.  I'm guessing a few people got caught not setting aside enough time for their ballot, wanted to vote for a 3rd CCIW team, and plucked Wheaton off the final 2018-19 poll without looking at what they lost/return. 

When Wheaton wins the national championship this year I expect to hear from these 5 voters.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Those five voters are the only ones who know about the secret lab where they've been making clones. The starting lineup this season will include AsTWOn Francis, Aston FOURncis, Aston FranSIX, AsTEN Francis, and Anajuwon Spencer.

[Greek Tragedy]

I have no doubt Dave will disclose these five voters' contact information so everyone who is offended by Wheaton's placement in the poll can let their feelings be known. The offended posters can organize a march, protest, petition to get these voters kicked off the Top 25 panel and they can elect their own competent posters like Greg Sager, nescac1, WUPHF, hopefan and FC Grizzlies. Then the world, and poll, will be a better place.

[Smitty Oom]

Those five voters are the only ones who know about the secret lab where they've been making clones. The starting lineup this season will include AsTWOn Francis, Aston FOURncis, Aston FranSIX, AsTEN Francis, and Anajuwon Spencer.

In this case, those 5 pollsters are would actually be "idiots," as a team with 4 Aston Francis most certainly should be ranked #1.

[Gregory Sager]

Those five voters are the only ones who know about the secret lab where they've been making clones. The starting lineup this season will include AsTWOn Francis, Aston FOURncis, Aston FranSIX, AsTEN Francis, and Anajuwon Spencer.

Something about those Aston Francis clones doesn't exactly look right:

In this case, those 5 pollsters are would actually be "idiots," as a team with 4 Aston Francis most certainly should be ranked #1.

Heck, a team with four Aston Francises would be pretty competent at the D2 level.

[Gregory Sager]

I have no doubt Dave will disclose these five voters' contact information so everyone who is offended by Wheaton's placement in the poll can let their feelings be known. The offended posters can organize a march, protest, petition to get these voters kicked off the Top 25 panel and they can elect their own competent posters like Greg Sager, nescac1, WUPHF, hopefan and FC Grizzlies. Then the world, and poll, will be a better place.

We're not saying that this is the end of the world, Tom. We're just saying that this negligence tarnishes the 2019-20 d3hoops.com preseason poll a bit. Given that this poll is the gold standard -- and that it's one of the reasons why we all make fun of the Street & Smith preseason poll -- it's worth commenting upon here.

Since Pat has put a lot of time and effort over the years into making d3hoops.com the go-to source for information about D3 men's basketball for both the media and for fans, I'm sure that he's even more annoyed by this negligent ballot work than we are. But, again, nobody here is exaggerating the importance of the five Wheaton-voting slackers.

[SpringSt7]

With all due respect to Pat, Dave, et. al that obviously do terrific work on covering D3 sports and giving them their deserving due, is this poll the gold standard or just the best poll we have? The voters that are active on these boards do an incredible job of gathering information and giving it their best shot, but for most of the voters I would imagine it is nearly impossible to accurately cover 400+ teams. Hypothetically, if I'm a voter in the northeast, is it reasonable that I would be able to judge whether or a team in Ohio's sophomore class is able to take the jump and contribute as compared to a team from the Northwest who returns 4 starters but loses two key bench pieces? All of this continuing throughout the season when none of these teams have a chance to play each other out of region to give us actual insight. The poll is more accurate than it is inaccurate, but we see enough teams make runs in the tournament each year that get little to no national recognition to know that the best we can do is guess.

[Pat Coleman]

The poll is more accurate than it is inaccurate, but we see enough teams make runs in the tournament each year that get little to no national recognition to know that the best we can do is guess.

Such is the nature of the sport of basketball, and that is why we love it so much.

[wally_wabash]

I have no doubt Dave will disclose these five voters' contact information so everyone who is offended by Wheaton's placement in the poll can let their feelings be known. The offended posters can organize a march, protest, petition to get these voters kicked off the Top 25 panel and they can elect their own competent posters like Greg Sager, nescac1, WUPHF, hopefan and FC Grizzlies. Then the world, and poll, will be a better place.

"I demand to know the name of the person who voted for [controversial team] and why they have a vote" guy is my favorite poll guy.