Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

I'm actually surprised how few outliers it has right now.  If someone voted for Massey's Top 25 it would be hard to argue.

[Titan Q]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

I'm actually surprised how few outliers it has right now.  If someone voted for Massey's Top 25 it would be hard to argue.

Massey and D3hoops.com agree on 19 of 25.  That is not bad for this early.   

Massey has
Elmhurst (#10)
UW-Stevens Point (#11)
UW-La Crosse (#12)
Hamilton (#13)
Wheaton (#16)
Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
https://www.masseyratings.com/cb2020/ncaa-d3/ratings


D3hoops.com Has
St. Johns (#14)
Wash U (#15)
Guilford (#19)
Augsburg (#20)
Wabash (#23)
WPI (#25)
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

[blue_jays]

After watching Nebraska Wesleyan this weekend, there's no way they're the #8 team in the country right now. St. Thomas ate their lunch and they almost lost to UChicago. Do they have the potential to be #8? Sure. But those two games should make them concerned.

[thebear]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

From my observation, it usually takes about 8-10 games for most of D-III for Massey's ratings to settle down.

That being said, most of the teams and programs that were good last year are good this year. 

There are exceptions, for example Plattsburgh lost all 5 starters, most of its coaching staff and had a very late head coach hire.

Success tends to breed success and make it easier to recruit top student-athletes to replace the departures.

[Greek Tragedy]

After watching Nebraska Wesleyan this weekend, there's no way they're the #8 team in the country right now. St. Thomas ate their lunch and they almost lost to UChicago. Do they have the potential to be #8? Sure. But those two games should make them concerned.

The Tommies ate their lunch last year in the tournament too, so there's that. Maybe they just know how to play them, maybe St. Thomas is just that much better? I don't know. You also have to remember that St. Thomas got smoked by Whitworth...and Nebraska Wesleyan beat preseason #12 St. John's by 22 on their home court.

[Greek Tragedy]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

I'm actually surprised how few outliers it has right now.  If someone voted for Massey's Top 25 it would be hard to argue.

Massey and D3hoops.com agree on 19 of 25.  That is not bad for this early.   

Massey has
Elmhurst (#10)
UW-Stevens Point (#11)
UW-La Crosse (#12)
Hamilton (#13)
Wheaton (#16)
Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
https://www.masseyratings.com/cb2020/ncaa-d3/ratings


D3hoops.com Has
St. Johns (#14)
Wash U (#15)
Guilford (#19)
Augsburg (#20)
Wabash (#23)
WPI (#25)
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

Not really sure how Massey works, but how is Stevens Point #11 after beating St. Olaf and Edgewood?

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

From my observation, it usually takes about 8-10 games for most of D-III for Massey's ratings to settle down.

That being said, most of the teams and programs that were good last year are good this year. 

There are exceptions, for example Plattsburgh lost all 5 starters, most of its coaching staff and had a very late head coach hire.

Success tends to breed success and make it easier to recruit top student-athletes to replace the departures.

Stevens Point was good, but not great, last year. They missed the tournament, picked 4th in the WIAC this year and lost four of their 5 starters.

[smedindy]

Since a lot of the data is unconnected, pre-season rankings still affect his algorithm.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

I'm actually surprised how few outliers it has right now.  If someone voted for Massey's Top 25 it would be hard to argue.

Massey and D3hoops.com agree on 19 of 25.  That is not bad for this early.   

Massey has
Elmhurst (#10)
UW-Stevens Point (#11)
UW-La Crosse (#12)
Hamilton (#13)
Wheaton (#16)
Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
https://www.masseyratings.com/cb2020/ncaa-d3/ratings


D3hoops.com Has
St. Johns (#14)
Wash U (#15)
Guilford (#19)
Augsburg (#20)
Wabash (#23)
WPI (#25)
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

D3h poll with Massey rank
St. Johns (#14) #40
Wash U (#15) #34
Guilford (#19) #32
Augsburg (#20) #54
Wabash (#23) #38
WPI (#25) #41

Massey with D3h rank
Elmhurst (#10) #26
UW-Stevens Point (#11) NR
UW-La Crosse (#12) NR
Hamilton (#13) #29
Wheaton (#16) #36
Illinois Wesleyan (#25) NR

[blue_jays]

After watching Nebraska Wesleyan this weekend, there's no way they're the #8 team in the country right now. St. Thomas ate their lunch and they almost lost to UChicago. Do they have the potential to be #8? Sure. But those two games should make them concerned.

The Tommies ate their lunch last year in the tournament too, so there's that. Maybe they just know how to play them, maybe St. Thomas is just that much better? I don't know. You also have to remember that St. Thomas got smoked by Whitworth...and Nebraska Wesleyan beat preseason #12 St. John's by 22 on their home court.

IMO St. Thomas doesn't have better starters than Neb. Wes., but they have the right players to make them pay in that zone look. UST is more of death by a thousand cuts than a team that overwhelms you with talent, and they have a deeper bench than NWU. The weekend made me very skeptical of the zone they're using in general, puts a lot more pressure on NWU's offense to perform.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Funny, the teams in our poll that Massey doesn't have in the Top 25 are all teams I'm still a little hesitant to endorse.  I don't give Massey much weight beyond some good math, but that coincidence is interesting.

[Fifth and Putnam]

A couple of Top 10 upsets this evening:

Westfield State 68
#3 Amherst 67

Benedictine 56
#9 North Central 49

[KnightSlappy]

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

I'm actually surprised how few outliers it has right now.  If someone voted for Massey's Top 25 it would be hard to argue.

Massey and D3hoops.com agree on 19 of 25.  That is not bad for this early.   

Massey has
Elmhurst (#10)
UW-Stevens Point (#11)
UW-La Crosse (#12)
Hamilton (#13)
Wheaton (#16)
Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
https://www.masseyratings.com/cb2020/ncaa-d3/ratings


D3hoops.com Has
St. Johns (#14)
Wash U (#15)
Guilford (#19)
Augsburg (#20)
Wabash (#23)
WPI (#25)
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

Not really sure how Massey works, but how is Stevens Point #11 after beating St. Olaf and Edgewood?

Shame on them if they are. Massey's database is woefully inadequate this early in the season.

From my observation, it usually takes about 8-10 games for most of D-III for Massey's ratings to settle down.

That being said, most of the teams and programs that were good last year are good this year. 

There are exceptions, for example Plattsburgh lost all 5 starters, most of its coaching staff and had a very late head coach hire.

Success tends to breed success and make it easier to recruit top student-athletes to replace the departures.

Stevens Point was good, but not great, last year. They missed the tournament, picked 4th in the WIAC this year and lost four of their 5 starters.

The computers like Stevens Point a good bit last year. Massey was #14 on them and my efficiency ratings had them #13.

FWIW, I'd rather see a voter pick Wheaton than Guilford right now.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far) - Thanksgiving Eve Edition

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Swarthmore	5-0	def. Washington College, 68-56; 12/01 vs. Arcadia
#2	567	Emory	5-0	def. Covenant, 67-62; 11/30 vs. Pfeiffer; 12/01 at Maryville (Tenn.)
#3	550	Amherst	3-1	LOST at Westfield State, 67-68
#4	531	Wittenberg	3-0	won at Oberlin, 66-56
#5	479	Middlebury	6-0	won at NVU-Johnson, 87-77; 12/01 at Endicott
#6	418	Nichols	4-0	12/01 at Trinity (Conn.)
#7	387	St. Thomas	5-1	def. Carleton, 74-60
#8	379	Nebraska Wesleyan	5-1	11/29 vs. University of the Ozarks; 11/30 vs. Willamette
#9	354	North Central (Ill.)	2-2	def. Rose-Hulman, 77-54; LOST to Benedictine, 49-56; 11/30 at Olivet; 12/01 at Kalamazoo
#10	334	Marietta	4-0	won at Baldwin Wallace, 86-76
#11	311	Christopher Newport	5-1	11/30 vs. #34 Texas-Dallas; 12/01 vs. UW-Stevens Point
#12	303	Randolph-Macon	6-0	12/01 at Randolph
#13	301	UW-Oshkosh	3-2	def. Edgewood, 99-80; 12/01 vs. Lawrence
#14	273	St. John's	4-1	won at St. Mary's (Minn.), 77-63
#15	258	Washington U.	5-1	def. Webster, 80-58; 12/01 vs. #17 Augustana
#16	240	Wooster	3-1	LOST to Mount Union, 67-81
#17	187	Augustana	4-1	def. UW-Whitewater, 86-69; 12/01 at #15 Washington U.
#18	173	UW-Platteville	5-0	won at Illinois Tech, 70-35; 12/01 at Cardinal Stritch
#19	154	Guilford	6-1	def. Methodist, 62-60; 11/30 at Eastern Mennonite
#20	146	Augsburg	2-1	LOST at #45 UW-La Crosse, 71-79; 11/30 vs. UW-River Falls
#21	145	Whitman	4-1	11/29 vs. JWU-Denver; 11/30 at Colorado College
#22	134	Johns Hopkins	5-0	won at McDaniel, 82-62; 12/01 vs. Moravian
#23	133	Wabash	4-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 84-72; 11/30 at #26 Elmhurst
#24	113	Whitworth	5-1	IDLE
#25	105	WPI	6-1	won at Worcester State, 68-47; 11/30 vs. Fitchburg State

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	87	Elmhurst	4-0	won at Lake Forest, 93-91; 11/30 vs. #23 Wabash
#27	84	Carthage	5-0	IDLE
#28	60	Oswego	4-0	won at Nazareth, 77-73
#29	54	Hamilton	5-0	won at Caltech, 94-82; 11/29 at Cal Lutheran
#30	40	Centre	5-1	won at Franklin, 74-72; 11/30 at Spalding
#31	34	Springfield	5-0	IDLE
#32	33	Rochester	5-1	LOST at Hobart, 53-57; 11/30 vs. Keuka; 12/01 vs. TBA
#33	27	Babson	5-0	12/01 at Bowdoin
#34	26	Texas-Dallas	2-1	11/30 at #11 Christopher Newport; 12/01 vs. Wilmington
#35	14	New Jersey City	3-1	def. Kean, 84-55; 11/30 vs. #40 Colby
#36	11	Wheaton (Ill.)	4-1	won at Chicago, 86-80; 11/30 at Ripon
#37	10	TCNJ	2-3	LOST to Stockton, 77-79
T#38	9	Tufts	5-0	def. MIT, 73-63
T#38	9	UW-Eau Claire	5-1	def. Wartburg, 79-70; 11/30 at Pacific Lutheran; 12/01 at Puget Sound
#40	8	Colby	5-0	11/30 at #35 New Jersey City; 12/01 at Kean
#41	7	St. John Fisher	4-2	won at Buffalo State, 89-83
T#42	5	Williams	4-1	won at Massachusetts College, 87-57; 12/01 at Albertus Magnus
T#42	5	Yeshiva	6-1	def. SUNY-Old Westbury, 94-79
#44	3	Pomona-Pitzer	1-2	11/29 vs. Pacific; 11/30 vs. Lewis and Clark
#45	1	UW-La Crosse	5-0	def. #20 Augsburg, 79-71; 11/30 vs. Wartburg

[CollegeGolf18]

Now how does the committee treat Wooster? Just lost to a Mount Union coming off two losses to Adrian (picked at the bottom of the MIAA) and Trine.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Now how does the committee treat Wooster? Just lost to a Mount Union coming off two losses to Adrian (picked at the bottom of the MIAA) and Trine.

Let's at least wait until the Stagg Bowl before we start in on basketball committees. The first regional rankings won't be for a couple months.