Top 25 talk

[smedindy]

This cannot be the case.

I think that Massey discounts all non-Division III games from the Division III ratings and here is my example as to why...

Massey has Illinois Wesleyan at No. 19 with a 7-3 record.

Click on the Illinois Wesleyan link and click on Division III and the record changes to 7-2 but the rating and SOS remain the same.  Southern Illinois disappears from the schedule.

In Division II, Bellarmine would surely have the No. 1 SOS after playing both Louisville and Notre Dame.

Massey codes these programs for a reason.

For Bellarmine, Louisville and Notre Dame are listed as exhibitions, and they are on both sides of the equation. So they are NOT counting for Bellarmine nor ND or Louisville.

Maybe Massey has tweaked it from the past. It used not to be that case. They have more menu options as well.

Good for him.

Still, for cross divisional comparisons, it includes everything.

[smedindy]

FYI - KenPom has now added in non-D1 results in his table. Sagarin still does not.

[Titan Q]

From St. Norbert:

St. Norbert 96
UW-Oshkosh 95 (OT)

I watched this game - it was a great one.  SNC hit a very difficult 3 with 1 second left in regulation to tie it.  I assumed UWO would foul on this possession to prevent the 3-point attempt...they did not.  Cue Bill Fenlon.

These are two good teams that are right in the middle of that mish mosh of teams from 15 to 35 ish.  There are so many even teams it is crazy.

St. Norbert is now a pretty strong Top 25 candidate -- https://www.d3hoops.com/teams/St._Norbert/men/2019-20/index.

Also, St. Norbert has a chance to get in good shape in the Central region.  If you look at their schedule, they might only lose 1 or 2 more the rest of the way.  SNC has often had that kind of record, but this year they have the wins over Eau Claire and Oshkosh and a better SOS from those games and Elmhurst and Benedictine.

The Central region is really crazy this year in terms of depth.

[Fifth and Putnam]

From St. Norbert:

St. Norbert 96
UW-Oshkosh 95 (OT)

I watched this game - it was a great one.  SNC hit a very difficult 3 with 1 second left in regulation to tie it.  I assumed UWO would foul on this possession to prevent the 3-point attempt...they did not.  Cue Bill Fenlon.

These are two good teams that are right in the middle of that mish mosh of teams from 15 to 35 ish.  There are so many even teams it is crazy.

St. Norbert is now a pretty strong Top 25 candidate -- https://www.d3hoops.com/teams/St._Norbert/men/2019-20/index.

Also, St. Norbert has a chance to get in good shape in the Central region.  If you look at their schedule, they might only lose 1 or 2 more the rest of the way.  SNC has often had that kind of record, but this year they have the wins over Eau Claire and Oshkosh and a better SOS from those games and Elmhurst and Benedictine.

The Central region is really crazy this year in terms of depth.

Won't be long before we're talking "pods of death".

[Titan Q]

Won't be long before we're talking "pods of death".

I don't think this a Bracket (or Pod) of Death kinda thing.

In that infamous year, you had a crazy amount of the top teams in the nation in one quadrant.  This is different.  I don't think any of the 14 Central Region Top 25 candidates is a top 5 type powerhouse.  It's just that there are 14 teams in one region that are all "very good" (14 teams you could legitimately consider for a Top 25 vote), and probably on par with the teams around the #15 mark in the current poll.  So when these teams get grouped together in the tournament, I don't think it will be unfair.

When Oshkosh goes to Emory and wins that game, I think we are going to see that the separation between the very top of the poll and the ORV category is very, very small.

[Titan Q]

Just to clarify, the 14 Central teams I am referring to are:

#9 UW-Platteville
#10 Wash U
#15 UW-La Crosse
#16 Elmhurst
#18 Carthage
#19 Benedictine
#23 Illinois Wesleyan
#25 North Central
ORV UW-Oshkosh
ORV UW-Stevens Point
ORV Wheaton
ORV Augustana
ORV UW-Eau Claire
Plus: St. Norbert

I believe a voter could make a case for giving a vote to any of those teams. 

I guess the one on the list you can make the least case for now is preseason #2 UW-Oshkosh at 5-4? Although worth noting, Massey has Oshkosh #19...SOS #2.

[WUPHF]

I do think the Central SOS rankings are an interesting too and telling...

No. 1 Elmhurst
No. 2 Oshkosh

No. 4 Illinois Wesleyan
No. 5 Lake Forest

No. 7 St. Norbert
No. 8 Chicago
No. 9 Ripon
No. 10 Augustana

[Smitty Oom]

When Oshkosh goes to Emory and wins that game, I think we are going to see that the separation between the very top of the poll and the ORV category is very, very small.

OR... Emory wins by 15-20 and maintain some strength at the very top of the ballot! 

Obviously joking somewhat, but Im fairly bullish on Swat and Emory and am over giving UW-O the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

[WUPHF]

Emory is going to light up Oshkosh, but the Eagles will have to find a way to slow down two 6-8 guys who are leading the Titans in scoring.  This with a 6-7 forward who is basically a guard and a few other 6-5 guys who play much bigger than that. 

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)
This shows games through Sunday, 12/29 ... although based on last year, the next poll might not happen until January 6.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Swarthmore	9-0	IDLE
#2	596	Emory	9-0	12/29 vs. #26 UW-Oshkosh
#3	552	Wittenberg	8-0	def. Hanover, 69-52; 12/29 vs. Elmira
#4	528	Middlebury	10-0	def. Morrisville State, 72-55
#5	502	St. Thomas	8-1	IDLE
#6	476	Marietta	8-0	won at Transylvania, 107-61; def. (n) Albion, 96-70; 12/28 vs. Salisbury; 12/29 vs. York (Pa.)
#7	470	Randolph-Macon	9-0	12/29 vs. Lebanon Valley
#8	469	Nebraska Wesleyan	10-1	12/21 at UW-River Falls
#9	436	UW-Platteville	9-0	12/27 vs. LeTourneau; 12/28 at #43 Mary Hardin-Baylor
#10	429	Washington U.	8-1	12/19 at #23 Illinois Wesleyan
#11	346	St. John's	7-1	12/20 at Linfield; 12/21 at Willamette
#12	320	Babson	9-0	IDLE
#13	312	Johns Hopkins	8-1	12/29 vs. Drew
#14	276	Whitworth	6-1	def. Mary Washington, 78-73; 12/28 vs. John Carroll; 12/29 at #24 Wooster
#15	244	UW-La Crosse	7-0	12/20 at Willamette; 12/21 at George Fox; 12/29 vs. #41 Augustana
#16	241	Elmhurst	7-1	won at La Verne, 97-64; 12/19 at Caltech; 12/22 vs. Illinois College
#17	224	Colby	9-0	IDLE
#18	130	Carthage	8-1	def. (n) Albright, 73-65; 12/19 vs. Birmingham-Southern
#19	129	Benedictine	8-2	LOST at Concordia-Chicago, 72-90
#20	104	Amherst	6-2	12/29 vs. Baruch
#21	100	Guilford	8-2	12/29 vs. LaGrange
#22	85	Hamilton	9-1	IDLE
#23	68	Illinois Wesleyan	7-2	12/19 vs. #10 Washington U.; 12/29 at Concordia (Texas)
#24	63	Wooster	7-1	def. Brockport, 94-90; 12/28 vs. Keene State; 12/29 vs. #14 Whitworth
#25	51	North Central (Ill.)	7-3	12/28 at Concordia (Texas); 12/29 vs. Sul Ross State

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	44	UW-Oshkosh	5-4	LOST at St. Norbert, 95-96 OT; 12/29 at #2 Emory
#27	43	Virginia Wesleyan	8-1	12/29 at Cabrini
#28	41	UW-Stevens Point	7-1	12/22 vs. #41 Augustana; 12/28 at Texas-Dallas; 12/29 vs. T#44 East Texas Baptist
#29	31	Springfield	8-1	IDLE
#30	25	Augsburg	5-2	12/20 vs. Shenandoah; 12/21 vs. St. Mary's (Md.)
#31	23	Rochester	8-1	IDLE
T#32	22	WPI	8-2	IDLE
T#32	22	Widener	10-0	12/19 at Lafayette
#34	20	Nichols	7-2	IDLE
T#35	12	Wheaton (Ill.)	8-2	IDLE
T#35	12	Whitman	5-2	12/27 at #43 Mary Hardin-Baylor; 12/28 vs. LeTourneau
T#35	12	Yeshiva	11-1	def. New Jersey City, 97-92; 12/19 at Moravian
#38	11	Pomona-Pitzer	6-2	12/29 vs. Lake Forest
#39	10	Albertus Magnus	9-1	IDLE
#40	7	Mount Union	6-2	12/28 vs. Alfred; 12/29 vs. Union
#41	6	Augustana	6-3	12/22 at #28 UW-Stevens Point; 12/29 at #15 UW-La Crosse
#42	4	UW-Eau Claire	8-2	IDLE
#43	3	Mary Hardin-Baylor	7-2	def. Concordia (Texas), 102-93; 12/27 vs. T#35 Whitman; 12/28 vs. #9 UW-Platteville
T#44	2	Centre	7-2	12/19 vs. Marymount; 12/20 vs. Lawrence
T#44	2	East Texas Baptist	6-1	12/28 vs. Blackburn; 12/29 vs. #28 UW-Stevens Point
#46	1	Christopher Newport	7-4	12/28 vs. Bethany; 12/29 vs. TBA

[Smitty Oom]

I know this isn't the right thread but I assumed it would get most traffic here..

Hey guys, I listened to Hoopsville last night and have some possible talking points if you are planning on a little more casual show. Obviously this is late notice but maybe it would provide some good discussions or provoke some other interesting talking points.

- Early front runners for PotY in each region
- Surprise team (maybe a deep dive surprise team) from each region
- The five best D3 programs of the decade (being its the last show of 2010-19
- the all decade team (of players)
- Best gyms/campus/atmosphere you have watched a game at

[ronk]

 Some good topics there.

[nescac1]

Interesting question re: the top five D3 programs of the decade.  Stevens Point, Whitewater, and St. Thomas are all locks (two titles each).  That leaves two spots for Amherst, Williams, Babson, Wisconsin Oshkosh, Augustana, all of whom could make a case (along with maybe one or two others, but that group definitely comes to mind). 

The case for Williams:

National runners-up in 2010 and 2014.
Final fours in 2011 and 2017
Elite 8s in 2013 and 2019
NCAA second round in 2018

NESCAC titles in 2010 and 2018, runners-up in 2011, 2013, 2014, 2017
Jostens National POY in 2010 (Blake Schultz)
National ROY in 2014 (Duncan Robinson, now an NBA starter)

D3 Hoops all-Americans (including HM):
Bobby Casey, James Heskett, Michael Mayer, Duncan Robinson, James Wang, Troy Whittington, Blake Schultz

Hayden Rooke-Ley set D3 record for most consecutive free throws made

For the all-decade team, from New England, Aaron Toomey, Jake Ross, and Joey Flannery all have to be represented in some capacity, I'd say, assuming going with several teams of guys.  Duncan Robinson was obviously the best player to come through D3 this decade, but only played one year, which rules him out.   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

- the all decade team (of players)

Off the top of my head, without a ton of research:

Toomey, DiBartolomeo, Flannery, Francis, Djurickovic.

Of course that's like four guards and a guard sized swing man, plus three of them are ball-dominant PGs, so you could never actually field this team, but those are probably the five best players of the decade (with the possible exception of Whitworth's Michael Taylor, who was only around for one season and I never really got a good handle on).

I didn't include guys who graduated in 09-10 (Stevie D was a junior).

[nescac1]

On the general topic of early award front-runners, RIC's Shion Darby is, statistically, having a ridiculous rookie season so far:

28.6-4.4-5.3, on respectable (especially given that volume) 45/33/74 shooting splits

For all decade, another name to consider, Aaron Walton-Moss, Cabrini.