Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

They do return their top THREE scorers on the team, from a very balanced team, as mentioned. They were the best team last year as well. I would probably put them near the high teens, low 20s. Nearly every team loses someone.

On paper, right now, are there 25 teams better than them? Your previous post kind of answers that...as a group, we have 14 and I'm not sure all of those 14 are better than Swarthmore.

But these two guys were the heart and soul of the team -- as accurately indicated in the all-region team.  To me, that's an a ton to lose  for preseason poll consideration.  And it is not like they have Fravert and Flynn-caliber guys returning.

I guess it will come down to what the bottom of the ballot ends up looking like.

[Titan Q]

Looking back at the last regular season poll...you could probably add:

Swat - They lose two guys, return their top 3 scorers and a deep bench.
St. Joseph CT - In theory returns everyone, but someone said some could transfer to D1 or D2 schools.
Wash U - Lose three starters, but return Nolan and Hardy.
Marietta - Loses only one senior starter.

Others not in poll

Wabash
Texas-Dallas -Could have Underwood back
RPI
Albion
PS-Harrisburg - Made some noise in the NCAAs. Return everyone

I have Wash U in my list above.

As far as Texas-Dallas, I'd go more "watch list" there...even with Underwood.  I went to 7 Comets games in person this year and losing PG Jalen Weber and 6-7 F/C Hans Burwitz is huge.  Those were their MVPs this year -- and Burwitz their key big guy.  I'll probably see how they are playing early on before going there in the preseason.

As far as Marietta, I didn't see them as a Top 25 team at the end of this year -- neither did any other voter.  If they lose a key piece from that team....who knows.  Bottom of the poll maybe?

[Titan Q]

#11 - Brockport returns 6 of their top 9, I would add them to the list. 

They return Jahidi Wallace (2nd team all region), Davante Hagins (former 1st team all-NYS player), Danny Ashley (former SUNYAC ROY), Tyree Grimsley, Antonio Alvarez, Tyler Sullivan.

Preseason AA Justin Summer was hurt for the middle of the season and came off the bench after his return.

Agree, they should be in.

[Titan Q]

Added Brockport.

So far from the comments here, and on some other boards, seems the following 15 teams are probable Top 25 teams for me...

(alphabetical)

* Amherst (18-8, 7-3)
* Brockport (26-3, 17-1)
* Elmhurst (25-5, 11-3)
* Emory (22-5, 11-3)
* Hobart (23-5, 15-3)
* Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5)
* Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2)
* Middlebury (21-6, 6-4)
* Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1)
* St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1)
* Tufts (23-6, 8-2)
* UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2)
* Wash U (22-5, 11-3)
* WPI (20-8, 10-3)
* Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0)

I could be missing some obvious candidates.  Just kind of a work-in-progress list.

Please keep the ideas coming.

[SpringSt7]

Not having a Swarthmore team that returns it's top 3 scorers from a team that lost one game at the buzzer as a Top 25 team doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you ask me. Shafer and O'Dell were their heart and soul, sure, but we're arguing Top 25, not Top 3 or Top 5. Plus their recruiting classes continue to get better and better and they have the national ROY. They'll be ranked to start the season for sure.

[Titan Q]

Not having a Swarthmore team that returns it's top 3 scorers from a team that lost one game at the buzzer as a Top 25 team doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you ask me. Shafer and O'Dell were their heart and soul, sure, but we're arguing Top 25, not Top 3 or Top 5. Plus their recruiting classes continue to get better and better and they have the national ROY. They'll be ranked to start the season for sure.

I don't see it that way, but I'm just 1 of 25 voters...so who knows.

[nescac1]

I think your group is pretty solid, all top 25 teams, Titan Q, but if we are talking top 15 I'd definitely swap Swarthmore for WPI or Hobart, both of whom seem like barely scraping into the top 25 types.  WPI is who they almost always are, a solid, tough, balanced team without a real star, will probably squeeze into the tourney and lose early on, like most years.  Hobart loses quite a bit it seems like to graduation including the top big guy and the guy who accounted for nearly half of their made 3's ....

St Joe's, Virginia Wesleyan, RPI, Marietta and Albion all seem like very solid top 25 squads too .... after that group of 21, it starts getting much dicier for the last few spots. 

Oh and I agree completely with SpringSt's Nescac assessment.  One of the easier years to handicap the league, an easy top three.  Which probably means we will all be wrong !

[Fifth and Putnam]

So far from the comments here, and on some other boards, seems the following 14 teams are probable Top 25 teams for me...

(alphabetical)

* Amherst (18-8, 7-3)
* Elmhurst (25-5, 11-3)
* Emory (22-5, 11-3)
* Hobart (23-5, 15-3)
* Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5)
* Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2)
* Middlebury (21-6, 6-4)
* Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1)
* St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1)
* Tufts (23-6, 8-2)
* UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2)
* Wash U (22-5, 11-3)
* WPI (20-8, 10-3)
* Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0)

I could be missing some obvious candidates.  Just kind of a work-in-progress list.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Albion (21-5) brings the entire roster back and will be the OVERWHELMING favorite in the MIAA next year. Will certainly be in that preseason Top 25 mix.

[Titan Q]

Albion (21-5) brings the entire roster back and will be the OVERWHELMING favorite in the MIAA next year. Will certainly be in that preseason Top 25 mix.

I didn't realize they return everyone.  Definitely a preseason Top 25 team.

[Titan Q]

I think your group is pretty solid, all top 25 teams, Titan Q, but if we are talking top 15 I'd definitely swap Swarthmore for WPI or Hobart, both of whom seem like barely scraping into the top 25 types. 

To clarify, my list is of potential preseason Top 25 teams.  It is not meant to be a list of potential top 15 teams.

If I can get my list to 25, then all I have to do to come up with the order...no problem.

[Titan Q]

Added Albion.

And jumped on the Swarthmore bandwagon for now.  With 8 open spots still, it does seem realistic at this point that they're in.

Feeling good about these 17 teams for the 2020-21 preseason Top 25.  Need 8 more.

(alphabetical order)

* Albion (21-5, 12-2)
* Amherst (18-8, 7-3)
* Brockport (26-3, 17-1)
* Elmhurst (25-5, 11-3)
* Emory (22-5, 11-3)
* Hobart (23-5, 15-3)
* Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5)
* Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2)
* Middlebury (21-6, 6-4)
* Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1)
* St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1)
* Swarthmore (28-1, 18-0)
* Tufts (23-6, 8-2)
* UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2)
* Wash U (22-5, 11-3)
* WPI (20-8, 10-3)
* Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0)

I could be missing some obvious candidates.  Just kind of a work-in-progress list.

Please keep the ideas coming.

[Titan Q]

With 8 to go...

* The OAC favorite should be in I think.  Will that be Marietta?

* What is the predicted top 3 order in the NCAC?

* I think UW-Oshkosh, which returns 3 really good perimeter players, is probably more in the mix than I assumed they would be.

* Wheaton (presumed CCIW #3 pick) could be closer to consideration than I assumed.

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm glad you finally gave in with the Swarthmore argument. LOL

With that said, it seemed pretty easy to include Oshkosh in the mix. However, they were a bottom Top 25 team and they lose, arguably, better players in Fravert and Flynn (top two scorers and rebounders on the team) than Swarthmore does in O'Dell and Shafer (4th and 5th scorers, 1st and 2nd in rebounding, I believe). So, if you had a hard time including Swarthmore, #1 in the nation, Oshkosh shouldn't even be in the mix when they finished in the 20s. I would have no problem excluding the Titans from the Top 25 considering who they lose.

I think, for some reluctantly, you may have to include St. John's in the mix. They lose two senior starters and 2 other reserve seniors that combined for 9.5 points a game, but did average double-digit minutes. They were #2 in the nation at season's end and were in the Sweet 16. They won't be above the Tommies, but even losing two starters have to consider them Top 25 worthy. The Johnnies reload, not rebuild. The only way I'd drop someone like the Johnnies and that high in the previous poll, out of the poll completely, is if they lost all 5 starters like NWU.

RPI got a few votes at the end of the year, and they lose less than Hobart and Ithaca. They have the top 5 scorers back, but lose two senior starters (combined for 11.5 pts/gm and 7.5 reb/gm)

SNC finished #26 in the Final Poll and they'll again reign the MWC. They had wins vs Eau Claire and Oshkosh, losses to Elmhurst and Benedictine.

Wabash actually finished ahead of Wooster last year and they have Davidson back, but lose just Hallstrom. Woo loses Hempy and Tipton as starters and Witt loses Seipel, Bertemes and Pumroy as starters. Seipel and Hempy are huge losses, obviously.

Generally, with the turnover of a lot of teams, we're going to have to ease up on our expectations, even if teams at the end of this year weren't in the Top 25 or even didn't receive any votes. There are a few teams ranked in the final poll that I would take a look at and may not get any votes (or very few) in the preseason poll (NCC, NWU, Pomona-Pitzer etc).

[Titan Q]

I'm glad you finally gave in with the Swarthmore argument. LOL

With that said, it seemed pretty easy to include Oshkosh in the mix. However, they were a bottom Top 25 team and they lose, arguably, better players in Fravert and Flynn (top two scorers and rebounders on the team) than Swarthmore does in O'Dell and Shafer (4th and 5th scorers, 1st and 2nd in rebounding, I believe). So, if you had a hard time including Swarthmore, #1 in the nation, Oshkosh shouldn't even be in the mix when they finished in the 20s. I would have no problem excluding the Titans from the Top 25 considering who they lose.

Yes, let me be clear - I'm not saying I think Oshkosh will truly be a Top 25 caliber team entering next year.  Just saying the Titans are "probably more in the mix than I assumed they would be."  Meaning, I have 8 spots open...and have just one WIAC team in...and feel like the WIAC should always have at least two...and it seems to be the consensus that Oshkosh will be the WIAC #2 pick next year?  So I mean they're in the conversation for sure.

[Baldini]

I'm glad you finally gave in with the Swarthmore argument. LOL

With that said, it seemed pretty easy to include Oshkosh in the mix. However, they were a bottom Top 25 team and they lose, arguably, better players in Fravert and Flynn (top two scorers and rebounders on the team) than Swarthmore does in O'Dell and Shafer (4th and 5th scorers, 1st and 2nd in rebounding, I believe). So, if you had a hard time including Swarthmore, #1 in the nation, Oshkosh shouldn't even be in the mix when they finished in the 20s. I would have no problem excluding the Titans from the Top 25 considering who they lose.

Yes, let me be clear - I'm not saying I think Oshkosh will truly be a Top 25 caliber team entering next year.  Just saying the Titans are "probably more in the mix than I assumed they would be."  Meaning, I have 8 spots open...and have just one WIAC team in...and feel like the WIAC should always have at least two...and it seems to be the consensus that Oshkosh will be the WIAC #2 pick next year?  So I mean they're in the conversation for sure.

That is interesting that Oshkosh is viewed as the consensus #2. I was thinking the UW-La Crosse was the #2 in the WIAC for next season. They return Ethan Anderson and Wyatt Cook and most of the rest of their roster. The lose of Terek Nesheim are large shoes to replace, but the remaining core is there.