Top 25 talk

[SpringSt7]

In fairness, I think Yeshiva expected to get more out of having Williams, Eastern Conn, and NJCU on their schedule. If they keep those three for just next year their schedule should look better instantly.

[Fifth and Putnam]

I expect Emory and RMC to be at the top of the heap next year to start as well, luckily we'll get an early answer to the debate between the two at the Great Lakes Invite at Marietta.

The Jackets and Eagles will meet on the first night of the event (November 20). Crossing my fingers we're playing basketball at that point.

[Titan Q]

In fairness, I think Yeshiva expected to get more out of having Williams, Eastern Conn, and NJCU on their schedule. If they keep those three for just next year their schedule should look better instantly.

I have spoken to some people in the know, and right now Yeshiva is finding it hard to get good teams to play them.  They have reached out to a bunch a top programs who have said no.

I'm pushing hard to get an Illinois Wesleyan/Yeshiva game on the schedule for 2021-22 in NYC.  The schools are talking.  That would fun.

[SpringSt7]

I have spoken to some people in the know, and right now Yeshiva is finding it hard to get good teams to play them.  They have reached out to a bunch a top programs who have said no.

Non-conference scheduling is so tricky because basically you're trying to find a bunch of teams that are good enough wins that it helps your SOS but not good enough to threaten your WL. If you're a top team like an Illinois Wesleyan, there just isn't enough benefit to get a team like that on your schedule.

I think that's why you see these teams schedule out years in advance. Yeshiva has played Williams for three years now, presumably building to this type of moment. Williams beat the brakes off of them the first two years, and then just as Yeshiva was building a program for this to be a potentially huge game, Williams had their worst season in 20+ years. It's a crapshoot.

I do wonder if Yeshiva ended up getting better a little sooner than Steinmetz expected, or maybe even wanted, just from a strictly scheduling point of view. Probably something similar happening to St. Joe's as well. If you're a team in the top half of a multi-bid league, why would you want to play a team that is going to go 27-4 with a low SOS? It's a lose-lose.

[ronk]

 Yeshiva and Scranton played annually during my years many moons ago. I remember particularly the Scranton Jewish community coming out to support the Yeshiva team in Scranton.
  Renewing the series now would help upgrade both teams' schedule; I'll probably suggest it to the Scranton scheduler.

[y_jack_lok]

I think it would be great for Randolph-Macon to schedule Yeshiva for the 20-21 season, if that's possible at this point. They were supposed to meet at R-MC in the Sweet 16 before the virus won all games.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1. 

Losing Halpert and Katz is going to be more difficult for Yeshiva than most may realize. The amount of big shots that Halpert made and his ability to space the floor is something they may not be able to replace with what they have returning. Katz was the ultimate glue guy in the paint.

Halpert is a junior ... they aren't losing him. Leifer is maybe who you are thinking of, but everything I've heard is he is coming back (he is listed as a senior based on academics not eligibility). They do lose Katz, but they have a few players on the bench that could step up and maybe provide a different look than Katz did ... also remember, Katz missed a good chunk of this season due to injury so they were already getting used to him not being there.

EDIT: Sorry ... I had the wrong Halpert in my head. Yes, they lose one Halpert, but again I think there are players on the bench people don't realize how good they are. Time will tell I guess.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I have spoken to some people in the know, and right now Yeshiva is finding it hard to get good teams to play them.  They have reached out to a bunch a top programs who have said no.

Non-conference scheduling is so tricky because basically you're trying to find a bunch of teams that are good enough wins that it helps your SOS but not good enough to threaten your WL. If you're a top team like an Illinois Wesleyan, there just isn't enough benefit to get a team like that on your schedule.

I think that's why you see these teams schedule out years in advance. Yeshiva has played Williams for three years now, presumably building to this type of moment. Williams beat the brakes off of them the first two years, and then just as Yeshiva was building a program for this to be a potentially huge game, Williams had their worst season in 20+ years. It's a crapshoot.

I do wonder if Yeshiva ended up getting better a little sooner than Steinmetz expected, or maybe even wanted, just from a strictly scheduling point of view. Probably something similar happening to St. Joe's as well. If you're a team in the top half of a multi-bid league, why would you want to play a team that is going to go 27-4 with a low SOS? It's a lose-lose.

No ... this is where Yeshiva expected to me at this point in their arc. Obviously, based on what recruits they got. But they expected to be this good with what they have.

Scheduling can be difficult, but as Titan Q alluded to they have also been shot down by some good programs for a variety of reasons. I think I mentioned on air their hopes of playing in Baltimore this past season but it didn't work out.

I think the more they stay strong the more others will change their minds and play them. There is probably two minds going on: the fear that a team could lose to someone that everyone else thinks they should beat (even though many of us know better) and the misrepresentation of Yeshiva being a team from the past versus what they are now. Their conference isn't helping the conversation because when you look at the SOS part of it that could cause teams to say no ... but then they aren't learning what many think the NESCAC have learned: play the top of a below average conference and it helps you.

I think Yeshiva's scheduling will continue to improve ... and I think now they have a leg up on the recruiting trails. When players like Turrell are willing to turn down D1 offers to play at Yeshiva ... that can only be a benefit moving forward.

[SpringSt7]

I agree that they expected to be good this year with what they have, but just from a logistics standpoint, if they first played Williams in 2017-18, they probably scheduled them in 2016-17, when Ryan Turell was a junior in high school. I don't think at that point they expected to be a top 10 team and in the Sweet 16 three years out. Turell and Leifer's emergence changed the trajectory of the program, but overall I don't see how this rise was anything other than meteoric.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

You can go back and listen to the interviews Steinmetz has had on Hoopsville for the last six seasons. Top ten? Maybe not, but six years ago he was looking to build a Top 25 program that would be able to compete and succeed in the NCAA tournament. And I would argue that guys like Turell were on his radar. They can recruit juniors in DIII (changed a few years ago) and so the idea that Turell was on their radar and plans even three or four years ago I think is a legit consideration.

[Titan Q]

Non-conference scheduling is so tricky because basically you're trying to find a bunch of teams that are good enough wins that it helps your SOS but not good enough to threaten your WL. If you're a top team like an Illinois Wesleyan, there just isn't enough benefit to get a team like that on your schedule.

I don't think that is how every program/head coach thinks about scheduling.  I think many want to go play other good teams for the purposes of competing, getting better, and giving their players cool experiences.

And as I mentioned, Illinois Wesleyan (Massey SOS #2 last year) is in a conversation with Yeshiva about playing as part of a holiday trip to NYC in 2021-22. 

We could all find dozens of examples of strong programs that play awesome non-conference chedules.  I think about Augustana's last year...UW-Oshkosh's, etc.  A lot of teams play several non-conf games that threaten their winning %.

But yes, many strong programs, unfortunately, do dodge other good teams.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeshiva also benefits by hosting a huge, national Jewish HS basketball tournament every year.  They get the very best players from their recruiting base on campus on a regular basis.  This was a huge tournament even before the team got good.

[nyhoopstalk]

In fairness, I think Yeshiva expected to get more out of having Williams, Eastern Conn, and NJCU on their schedule. If they keep those three for just next year their schedule should look better instantly.

I have spoken to some people in the know, and right now Yeshiva is finding it hard to get good teams to play them.  They have reached out to a bunch a top programs who have said no.

I'm pushing hard to get an Illinois Wesleyan/Yeshiva game on the schedule for 2021-22 in NYC.  The schools are talking.  That would fun.

Based on proximity and name recognition, NYU and Yeshiva should play every year.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

In fairness, I think Yeshiva expected to get more out of having Williams, Eastern Conn, and NJCU on their schedule. If they keep those three for just next year their schedule should look better instantly.

I have spoken to some people in the know, and right now Yeshiva is finding it hard to get good teams to play them.  They have reached out to a bunch a top programs who have said no.

I'm pushing hard to get an Illinois Wesleyan/Yeshiva game on the schedule for 2021-22 in NYC.  The schools are talking.  That would fun.

Based on proximity and name recognition, NYU and Yeshiva should play every year.

It would be nice ... I know many who would be for it. Tapping into the UAA wouldn't hurt, though NYU hasn't been all that strong of an opponent in the OWP category.

[WUPHF]

Tapping into the UAA wouldn't hurt, though NYU hasn't been all that strong of an opponent in the OWP category.

I fixed it for you.

Sadly, NYU has not been close to relevant since 2015-2016.