Top 25 talk

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Almost Complete)

BW/Marietta not yet finished.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	603	Yeshiva	13-0	won at Brooklyn, 94-48; def. Washington College, 85-76; def. Medgar Evers, 104-59
#2	591	Randolph-Macon	8-1	IDLE
#3	590	Illinois Wesleyan	7-1	LOST at #8 Wheaton (Ill.), 62-67
#4	563	UW-Platteville	11-0	won at Olivet, 63-57; won at Hope, 73-63
#5	487	St. Joseph (Conn.)	8-0	def. Elms, 86-60; def. Anna Maria, 91-68
#6	479	UW-Oshkosh	9-1	def. North Central (Ill.), 91-67
#7	395	Elmhurst	8-2	won at Millikin, 79-61; LOST at North Park, 67-69
#8	388	Wheaton (Ill.)	9-1	won at Carroll, 81-57; def. #3 Illinois Wesleyan, 67-62
#9	379	Mary Hardin-Baylor	5-1	won at McMurry, 86-67; LOST at T#38 Hardin-Simmons, 77-80
#10	357	Marietta	5-2	won at Baldwin Wallace, 83-71
#11	356	Roanoke	6-1	IDLE
#12	320	Johns Hopkins	7-1	IDLE
#13	310	UW-La Crosse	8-2	won at #16 Trine, 68-61
#14	300	Christopher Newport	7-2	def. #27 Lynchburg, 79-74
#15	276	Whitworth	8-1	def. Whitman, 82-71; def. Colorado College, 80-61
#16	229	Trine	5-3	LOST to #36 Heidelberg, 67-72; LOST to #13 UW-La Crosse, 61-68
#17	218	Mount Union	7-1	won at John Carroll, 93-83; won at Ohio Northern, 72-56
#18	205	Washington U.	8-1	def. Fontbonne, 71-48
#19	197	Swarthmore	7-1	won at Susquehanna, 88-60
#20	164	Williams	9-0	def. Union, 75-53; won at Springfield, 74-61
#21	121	Amherst	8-0	won at Springfield, 75-61
#22	106	RPI	8-0	won at Bard, 75-45; won at Mount St. Mary, 77-54
#23	103	Emory	4-3	LOST at Covenant, 58-69 OT
#24	58	Maryville (Tenn.)	7-1	def. Johnson (Tenn.), 85-68
#25	51	DeSales	10-0	won at Stevens, 64-44; def. Misericordia, 82-68

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	46	Wesleyan (Conn.)	9-1	def. Manhattanville, 74-60; won at Farmingdale State, 85-80
#27	38	Lynchburg	6-2	won at Salisbury, 77-75; LOST at #14 Christopher Newport, , 74-79
#28	37	WPI	8-1	won at Husson, 88-69
#29	24	Calvin	5-2	IDLE
#30	19	Case Western Reserve	8-1	IDLE
#31	14	Wooster	6-1	def. Allegheny, 77-60; def. Hiram, 82-53
#32	11	Widener	4-4	LOST to Eastern, 82-89
T#33	10	Oswego	7-1	won at Fredonia, 63-48
T#33	10	Cal Lutheran	7-2	LOST at San Diego, 55-84
T#33	10	Mass-Dartmouth	7-2	LOST at Eastern Connecticut, 73-75
#36	9	Heidelberg	8-1	won at #16 Trine, 72-67; def. Wilmington, 97-66
#37	8	Berry	6-1	IDLE
T#38	6	Colby	6-4	def. Maine-Farmington, 86-81 OT; LOST at #43 Brandeis, 68-69
T#38	6	Hardin-Simmons	9-1	def. Concordia (Texas), 99-76; def. #9 Mary Hardin-Baylor, 80-77
T#38	6	Trinity (Texas)	7-1	IDLE
T#41	4	LeTourneau	8-0	def. Belhaven, 78-66; def. East Texas Baptist, 71-70
#42	5	Rochester	7-2	won at Ithaca, 81-76 OT
#43	4	Brandeis	7-2	def. Lasell, 88-44; def. T#38 Colby, 69-68
T#44	2	Nazareth	6-1	won at SUNYIT, 79-78
T#44	2	Wartburg	9-1	def. UW-Eau Claire, 82-70; won at Simpson, 77-59
T#46	1	Hanover	5-1	LOST at Defiance, 73-74
T#46	1	Mary Washington	9-2	def. Eastern Mennonite, 80-57
T#46	1	Nichols	9-1	def. Trinity (Conn.), 85-82 OT; LOST at Wentworth, 79-95; won at Tufts, 90-85
T#46	1	Stockton	9-1	def. TCNJ, 75-55; def. Montclair State, 89-82

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

For some programs, the start to the 2021-22 season has been better than expected. For others, it has been recording breaking.

On Sunday's edition of Hoopsville, we chat with coaches of programs whose teams are off to strong starts. Some of those starts might have been expected, but not all of them.

We chat with Heidelberg and RPI men's basketball program plus York (Pa.) and No. 7 Trine women's programs.

You can watch the show LIVE (or on demand) here: https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/dec9

We are also simulcasting on our Facebook Live page (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)

Guests List (order subject to change):
- Heidelberg men's coach Andy Bucheit
- York (Pa.) women's coach Betsy Witman
- #7 Trine women's coach Andy Rang
- RPI men's coach Mark Gilbride

Hoopsville is hosted by Dave McHugh from the NABC Studios. It is presented by D3hoops.com and thanks to our partners at the WBCA and BlueFrame Technology.

If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville


 
   
We also have the podcast now on Tune-In and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3sports.com
Hoopsville Season Archive: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville
YouTube: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville

[Greek Tragedy]

Not Top 25 related...but if you aren't following SJF, you're missing out.

Connor Williams, listed at 7 feet, 360 lbs making the rounds on Twitter. Good stuff. Here's an article:

https://www-rochesterfirst-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/college-sports/get-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16394585953066&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rochesterfirst.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege-sports%2Fget-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn%2F

[Next Man Up]

Not Top 25 related...but if you aren't following SJF, you're missing out.

Connor Williams, listed at 7 feet, 360 lbs making the rounds on Twitter. Good stuff. Here's an article:

https://www-rochesterfirst-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/college-sports/get-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16394585953066&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rochesterfirst.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege-sports%2Fget-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn%2F

They showed a tape of him on Sports Sunday which is the special sports wrap up/highlights show following the 10:00 news every Sunday night on NBC, Channel 5 in Chicago.

[Next Man Up]

Seems a little odd that 9-1 Wheaton beat 7-1 Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday night, yet IWU is ranked higher in this week's Top 25 Poll.
Unlike rising inflation in many aspects of society currently, perhaps head-to-head competition has been discounted?

[WUPHF]

So, the voters went with the team with the "better loss" and better strength of schedule.  Always tough and interesting.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Seems a little odd that 9-1 Wheaton beat 7-1 Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday night, yet IWU is ranked higher in this week's Top 25 Poll.
Unlike rising inflation in many aspects of society currently, perhaps head-to-head competition has been discounted?

Personally, I ranked Wheaton ahead of IWU, but often voters will be forgiving with road losses to good teams.  Playing at home is a distinct advantage, especially when teams are evenly matched.  Voters similarly didn't count the close loss at IWU against Oshkosh all that much.

I've kept RMC in my #1 slot all along despite their loss for much the same reason.  In my view a repeat loss is less than a 50/50 proposition.  I suspect voters who've kept IWU ahead of Wheaton feel similarly.

[USee]

I admittedly don't understand the basketball world when it comes to rankings. But all this stuff you guys are talking about (better loss? Road loss?) trumps a HTH result? I mean they are going to play again @IWU anyway right? And Oshkosh lost to IWU but they aren't ranked ahead of IWU so that's not the same thing.

[PauldingLightUP]

This is one of those classic A beats B and C beats A situations, that Dave mentions on Hoopsville from time to time, that puts voters in a tough spot. I think the top 10 is pretty good at this point including point differences in certain spots.

[USee]

A,B,C?? Wheaton beat IWU head to head. How is that A v B v C?

In terms of losses, Wheaton's only loss is on a half court heave on the road to a top 10 team. IWU's loss is to a top 10 team by 5 on the road. I don't get it.

[PauldingLightUP]

A,B,C?? Wheaton beat IWU head to head. How is that A v B v C?

In terms of losses, Wheaton's only loss is on a half court heave on the road to a top 10 team. IWU's loss is to a top 10 team by 5 on the road. I don't get it.

I misinterpreted you original post, but I was saying Wheaton beat IWU and IWU beat Oshkosh. You were looking to just compare Wheaton and IWU I think.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I admittedly don't understand the basketball world when it comes to rankings. But all this stuff you guys are talking about (better loss? Road loss?) trumps a HTH result? I mean they are going to play again @IWU anyway right? And Oshkosh lost to IWU but they aren't ranked ahead of IWU so that's not the same thing.

A head to head only proves who's better on that night.  Different voters approach the ranking in different ways. Not everybody is trying to rank teams in the moment.

When comparing teams, I tend to think about how they'd perform head to head over a lot of games. If they played 100 times, which would win more.

Head to heads help with that a lot, but they're not necessarily definitive. I moved Wheaton ahead of IWU more because of how they looked than because they won.

[stlawus]

Folks also have to remember that these rankings are "unofficial" if you will.  It's cool and interesting to see the top 25 no doubt, but it's still an arbitrary metric.  You definitely want to see your team get national attention with a top 25 ranking, but if you feel snubbed you can take comfort knowing that a good team is a good team, and playing at the end of the year unranked can give you a feeling of playing with house money.  All that matters is the regional rankings in the end. 

Again, this isn't to take away from the top 25 poll.  It's all we have to gauge the field before the regional rankings and it stokes the conversation. 

[Next Man Up]

I also sense some voters wouldn't give Wheaton that much credit for beating IWU because they did so on their own floor and they'd say the home team should win on it's own floor.

[USee]

HCA is worth 3pts Wheaton won by 5. Should have been Wheaton 4, IWU 5 and UWO 6 if the voters need to anchor UWO to IWU. And if we are gonna wait until the end of the year then why have rankings at all during the season.