Top 25 talk

[scottiedawg]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

[WUPHF]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They are really good, play good opponents.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They also tend to have overlap with non d3 schools that are more highly ranked than a lot of d3 opponents.  Throw a few d2 and good NAIA schools into a schedule and Massey laps it up.

[Pat Coleman]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They also tend to have overlap with non d3 schools that are more highly ranked than a lot of d3 opponents.  Throw a few d2 and good NAIA schools into a schedule and Massey laps it up.

This is my take on it as well.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They also tend to have overlap with non d3 schools that are more highly ranked than a lot of d3 opponents.  Throw a few d2 and good NAIA schools into a schedule and Massey laps it up.

This is my take on it as well.

Ryan says it better than I ever can when I try to ... also, Massey doesn't seem to be able to distinguish what is an exhibition game to the DIII and not to a DI, so games either side may or may not be taking seriously but are "real" for someone ... impact the data.

[WUPHF]

Ryan says it better than I ever can when I try to ... also, Massey doesn't seem to be able to distinguish what is an exhibition game to the DIII and not to a DI, so games either side may or may not be taking seriously but are "real" for someone ... impact the data.

I am sure Massey gets the data wrong in some cases, but by and large, Massey does distinguish between divisions.

[Titan Q]

My conversation with Drew Pasteur (@d3bubble) and Matt Snyder (@FFTMAG) about the regional ranking and Pool C pictures across all 10 MBB regions.

Fun stuff...enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5PS0VI_P74&t=81s

0:00 Matt and Drew's D3 story
8:04 The criteria
12:07 Region 1
18:50 Region 2
25:51 Region 3
34:28 Region 4
37:35 Region 5
42:55 Region 6
50:03 Region 7
58:51 Region 8
1:07:03 Region 9
1:15:13 Region 10
1:23:48 Final thoughts

[txg]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They also tend to have overlap with non d3 schools that are more highly ranked than a lot of d3 opponents.  Throw a few d2 and good NAIA schools into a schedule and Massey laps it up.

I really don't think this is a thing for the MIAC.  They only get 5 NC games a year, which are usually some mixture of WIAC, UMAC, and maybe Iowa schools.  With trips to tournaments thrown in sometimes.  I just perused 5 MIAC schedules and didn't see a single non-D3 opponent.

I don't know about the WIAC in this regard, but are we really saying that its high rating is a quirk of the rating system?  It seems like a pretty awesome conference to me.

[Titan Q]

Massey has always rated the WIAC and MIAC schools quite highly.

Do we have an idea why?

They are really good, play good opponents.

Yes, it is this.

I will continue to roll my eyes every time someone suggests the computer formulas are broken...just for the WIAC and MIAC.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't think it's a problem, just a reality. I don't consider any non d3 games when I vote for a team, but the computers do.  NE non d3 teams tend to be terrible. Non d3 teams in MN, WI, and MI tend to be pretty good. To me it's a perfectly legit explanation, in addition to a lack of real weakness available for non con play. Massey also (for good reasons) tends to value conferences where most teams have winning non con records. That helps.

[WUPHF]

I don't consider any non d3 games when I vote for a team, but the computers do. 

Which computers?

Massey allows you to sort by Division and I have to assume that everyone does that, lest they be interested to know that Randolph Macon is the 386th team overall.

Massey also (for good reasons) tends to value conferences where most teams have winning non con records. That helps.

Massey does not factor conference membership in to the ratings.  If Yeshiva had the exact same schedule as Oshkosh (that would be fun), they would be rated accordingly.

[sac]

The MIAC has always felt like a pretty top heavy league who consistently has the misfortune of having to beat WIAC or CCIW opponents in the NCAA tournament to advance, sometimes early. 

Massey currently has them #9, behind the SCIAC.  The 3 current top heavies are #19St. John's 13-3, #22Augsburg 14-2, #75Carleton 12-3   (carleton plays both this week btw)  This doesn't seem out of line this year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't consider any non d3 games when I vote for a team, but the computers do. 

Which computers?

Massey allows you to sort by Division and I have to assume that everyone does that, lest they be interested to know that Randolph Macon is the 386th team overall.

Massey also (for good reasons) tends to value conferences where most teams have winning non con records. That helps.

Massey does not factor conference membership in to the ratings.  If Yeshiva had the exact same schedule as Oshkosh (that would be fun), they would be rated accordingly.

Massey counts all games, so a good performance against a good D2 team will boost a team more than a similar performance against an overall lower ranked d3 team. Getting good non d3 games and performing will in them boosts your profile.

The conference membership doesn't count for anything on its own, but getting two games against a bunch of teams with winning records does, which is a defacto advantage for being in a good conference. That's all I meant.

The computer rankings depend greatly on who you're playing and those midwest power leagues play much stronger schedules, which boosts those profiles quite a bit.

As I said, it's not a problem or a cheat, it's just reflection of reality.  Those teams are just set up to do well in a computer rankings, and those rankings are pretty reliable.

[WUPHF]

Massey counts all games, so a good performance against a good D2 team will boost a team more than a similar performance against an overall lower ranked d3 team. Getting good non d3 games and performing will in them boosts your profile.

This is incorrect, unless you have it sorted for NCAA which surely no one does.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Massey counts all games, so a good performance against a good D2 team will boost a team more than a similar performance against an overall lower ranked d3 team. Getting good non d3 games and performing will in them boosts your profile.

This is incorrect, unless you have it sorted for NCAA which surely no one does.

They don't exclude non d3 games just because you select them to be listed as only d3.

If you sort by d3 and click on Hope, the games with Cornerstone and Aquinas are still listed there.  Massey includes all the games these teams play.  It even includes the game with Western Michigan, because it counted for WMU.