Top 25 talk

[WUPHF]

If you click on Hope College, then click on Division III, it will filter out Cornerstone and Aquinas and the overall Division III rating will not change.

If you don't do that, you will notice that Cornerstone and Aquinas remain on the schedule but do not have a rating by their record.

There are problems with Massey (I have seen entire games missing for example), but this is not an issue in the vast majority of records.

If this was not the case, Webster would have a far better strength of schedule than 150 having played a Division I and two Division II schools.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

If you click on Hope College, then click on Division III, it will filter out Cornerstone and Aquinas and the overall Division III rating will not change.

If you don't do that, you will notice that Cornerstone and Aquinas remain on the schedule but do not have a rating by their record.

There are problems with Massey (I have seen entire games missing for example), but this is not an issue in the vast majority of records.

If this was not the case, Webster would have a far better strength of schedule than 150 having played a Division I and two Division II schools.

Just clicking on d3 doesn't change the algorithm.  It just shows you the d3 games they've played.  You can contact Massey and ask, but I'm pretty confident every game listed on the schedule is factored into the rankings, regardless of how you sort them.

[WUPHF]

Clicking on Division III reveals the games that are being fed in to the Hal 9000 super computer.

I can tell you that Carnegie Mellon did not move when they beat a better than average Walsh University.

You can find many cases similar to the Carnegie Mellon and Webster SOS examples that reveal that by and large, Massey is looking at Division III data.  I am sure there are problems including missing games, mislabeled provisional teams and so on...

People will always love the D3hoops.com poll, including those who prefer the human element can factor out fluke losses to Webster and such, but Massey is a useful tool that privileges those teams that play hard schedules and win.

[WUPHF]

This.

This is incorrect.

I'll e-mail Ken Massey.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Clicking on Division III reveals the games that are being fed in to the Hal 9000 super computer.

I can tell you that Carnegie Mellon did not move when they beat a better than average Walsh University.

You can find many cases similar to the Carnegie Mellon and Webster SOS examples that reveal that by and large, Massey is looking at Division III data.  I am sure there are problems including missing games, mislabeled provisional teams and so on...

People will always love the D3hoops.com poll, including those who prefer the human element can factor out fluke losses to Webster and such, but Massey is a useful tool that privileges those teams that play hard schedules and win.

This is the last thing I'll say on it.  The rating of the individual team doesn't change, regardless of how its sorted.  When you're sorting every team in the database, the rating (not the rank) stays exactly the same across the board.  Maybe the computer folks can chime in if I'm way off, but I don't know any way Massey could even compile an all-division ranking without including crossover games in there.  The number is the number and its based on every game they play.

[WUPHF]

Greg deleted his posts so he must be planning to return with the definitive tome on all things Massey.

By the way, Carnegie Mellon, to continue with that example, is rated No. 835 across all divisions.  A simple database with teams properly coded (and some are not) could easily toggle back and forth.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg deleted his posts so he must be planning to return with the definitive tome on all things Massey.

Nah, I've just gotta pick and choose my discussions ... and this one looked like it was going to get involved, so I thought twice about it and deleted the post about thirty seconds after hitting the button. You caught it during that brief window and posted it as a quote with your reply.

It's a bit funny, because I've done that before, and this is the first time I've ever been caught (as it were).

[WUPHF]

Nah, I've just gotta pick and choose my discussions ... and this one looked like it was going to get involved, so I thought twice about it and deleted the post about thirty seconds after hitting the button. You caught it during that brief window and posted it as a quote with your reply.

Smart, smart!

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Randolph-Macon	15-1	def. Bridgewater (Va.), 80-51; 01/27 at Hampden-Sydney; 01/29 at Washington and Lee
#2	577	Illinois Wesleyan	15-3	won at Carthage, 89-72; LOST at #19 Elmhurst, 66-74; 01/29 vs. Concordia-Chicago
#3	566	Washington U.	14-1	01/28 at Carnegie Mellon; 01/30 at #29 Case Western Reserve
#4	542	UW-Oshkosh	15-3	LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 72-74 OT
#5	526	UW-Platteville	18-1	def. #10 UW-La Crosse, 76-72
#6	490	Marietta	15-2	won at Otterbein, 66-57; 01/29 vs. Baldwin Wallace
#7	447	Yeshiva	15-1	won at Mount St. Mary, 89-49; 01/29 at SUNY-Maritime
#8	443	Christopher Newport	18-2	won at William Peace, 91-69
#9	440	St. Joseph (Conn.)	14-0	won at Johnson and Wales, 70-57; 01/28 at Elms; 01/29 at Regis (Mass.) postponed
#10	423	UW-La Crosse	15-3	LOST at #5 UW-Platteville, 72-76; 01/29 vs. Bethel
#11	314	Mount Union	15-2	def. La Roche, 81-63; def. John Carroll, 89-80; 01/29 vs. Ohio Northern
#12	307	Johns Hopkins	13-2	01/27 at Gettysburg; 01/29 at #15 Swarthmore
#13	303	Maryville (Tenn.)	14-1	01/27 vs. Covenant; 01/29 vs. Piedmont
#14	236	Williams	14-1	01/25 at SUNY New Paltz postponed; 01/28 vs. Connecticut College; 01/29 vs. Trinity (Conn.)
#15	235	Swarthmore	15-2	01/27 vs. Muhlenberg; 01/29 vs. #12 Johns Hopkins
#16	233	Whitworth	15-2	01/28 vs. Willamette
#17	230	WPI	15-2	LOST at Coast Guard, 55-77; 01/29 vs. Springfield
#18	201	Wheaton (Ill.)	15-4	def. Carroll, 94-73; 01/29 at North Central (Ill.)
#19	181	Elmhurst	13-5	LOST at North Central (Ill.), 70-79; def. #2 Illinois Wesleyan, 74-66; 01/29 vs. North Park
#20	144	Wesleyan	16-2	won at T#37 Tufts, 65-64; 01/28 vs. Amherst; 01/30 vs. Hamilton
#21	114	Mary Hardin-Baylor	13-2	01/27 vs. Hardin-Simmons; 01/29 vs. McMurry
#22	112	Oswego State	16-1	won at SUNY Geneseo, 78-68; 01/28 vs. SUNY Oneonta; 01/29 vs. SUNY New Paltz
#23	93	Augsburg	14-2	01/26 at Bethel canceled; 01/29 at Carleton
#24	90	Emory	11-4	01/28 vs. T#39 Brandeis; 01/30 vs. New York University
#25	41	Nazareth	14-1	01/28 vs. Alfred; 01/29 at St. John Fisher

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	38	Mass-Dartmouth	13-2	def. Eastern Connecticut, 71-67; 01/28 vs. Western Connecticut
#27	37	Heidelberg	13-3	def. Baldwin Wallace, 65-64; 01/29 at Wilmington
#28	36	DeSales	16-2	LOST to Wilkes, 44-46; 01/29 at Misericordia
#29	32	Case Western Reserve	13-2	01/28 vs. Chicago; 01/30 vs. #3 Washington U.
#30	16	LeTourneau	14-2	01/27 at East Texas Baptist; 01/29 at Belhaven
#31	15	Berry	13-2	01/28 vs. Birmingham-Southern; 01/30 vs. Millsaps
#32	13	RPI	13-2	won at Ithaca, 66-61; 01/28 vs. Union; 01/29 vs. Ithaca
#33	10	Middlebury	13-3	01/25 at SUNY-Old Westbury postponed; 01/28 vs. Trinity (Conn.); 01/29 vs. Connecticut College
#34	5	Wabash	13-3	won at Wittenberg, 87-69; 01/29 vs. Denison; 01/30 vs. Wooster
T#35	3	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	13-2	def. Caltech, 72-63; 01/29 vs. Occidental
T#35	3	Keene State	13-3	def. Eastern Connecticut, 89-74; LOST to Plymouth State, 56-68; 01/29 vs. Rhode Island College
T#37	2	Guilford	10-4	LOST at Hampden-Sydney, 58-62; 01/29 at Bridgewater (Va.)
T#37	2	Tufts	7-9	LOST to #20 Wesleyan, 64-65; 01/28 at Bowdoin; 01/29 at Colby
T#39	1	Brandeis	8-3	01/28 at #24 Emory; 01/30 at Rochester
T#39	1	Penn State-Harrisburg	14-1	01/28 at Wells; 01/29 at Morrisville State

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Today on Hoopsville - we are once again hitting the air at 1:00 PM ET.



We will try and due justice to the crazy night that was in DIII basketball. We will look back at the results from Wednesday night in men's and women's play.

Plus we continue to chat with some teams that are flying a bit under the radar. Guests include:

• Dan Roiger, St. Lawrence women's coach
• Mike Miller, No. 24 Messiah women's coach
• Kyle Brumett, Wabash men's coach
• Damion Jablonski, No. 16 Whitworth men's coach
• Top 25 Women's Double-Take with Scott Peterson and Riley Zayas

Tune into the show here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/jan27 - an On Demand version and a podcast are available after the show gets off the air.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Almost Complete)

St Joseph's at Regis tips off at 7:00.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Randolph-Macon	17-1	def. Bridgewater (Va.), 80-51; won at Hampden-Sydney, 83-63; won at Washington and Lee, 77-72
#2	577	Illinois Wesleyan	15-4	won at Carthage, 89-72; LOST at #19 Elmhurst, 66-74; LOST to Concordia-Chicago, 75-81 OT
#3	566	Washington U.	14-3	LOST at Carnegie Mellon, 68-71 OT; LOST at #29 Case Western Reserve, 70-75
#4	542	UW-Oshkosh	15-3	LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 72-74 OT
#5	526	UW-Platteville	18-1	def. #10 UW-La Crosse, 76-72
#6	490	Marietta	16-2	won at Otterbein, 66-57; def. Baldwin Wallace, 94-82
#7	447	Yeshiva	16-1	won at Mount St. Mary, 89-49; won at SUNY-Maritime, 70-42
#8	443	Christopher Newport	18-2	won at William Peace, 91-69
#9	440	St. Joseph (Conn.)	16-0	won at Johnson and Wales, 70-57; won at Elms, 85-49; won at Regis (Mass.), 81-56
#10	423	UW-La Crosse	16-3	LOST at #5 UW-Platteville, 72-76; def. Bethel, 95-60
#11	314	Mount Union	16-2	def. La Roche, 81-63; def. John Carroll, 89-80; def. Ohio Northern, 93-71
#12	307	Johns Hopkins	14-3	won at Gettysburg, 67-57; LOST at #15 Swarthmore, 68-78
#13	303	Maryville (Tenn.)	16-1	def. Covenant, 95-63; def. Piedmont, 71-67
#14	236	Williams	14-1	01/25 at SUNY New Paltz postponed; 01/28 vs. Connecticut College postponed; 01/29 vs. Trinity (Conn.) postponed
#15	235	Swarthmore	16-3	LOST to Muhlenberg, 60-76; def. #12 Johns Hopkins, 78-68
#16	233	Whitworth	16-2	def. Willamette, 102-89
#17	230	WPI	16-2	LOST at Coast Guard, 55-77; def. Springfield, 83-48
#18	201	Wheaton (Ill.)	16-4	def. Carroll, 94-73; won at North Central (Ill.), 75-71
#19	181	Elmhurst	14-5	LOST at North Central (Ill.), 70-79; def. #2 Illinois Wesleyan, 74-66; def. North Park, 89-59
#20	144	Wesleyan	17-3	won at T#37 Tufts, 65-64; LOST to Amherst, 81-83; def. Hamilton, 72-51
#21	114	Mary Hardin-Baylor	15-2	def. Hardin-Simmons, 82-76; def. McMurry, 93-75
#22	112	Oswego State	18-1	won at SUNY Geneseo, 78-68; def. SUNY Oneonta, 86-58; def. SUNY New Paltz, 82-53
#23	93	Augsburg	14-2	01/26 at Bethel canceled; 01/29 at Carleton canceled
#24	90	Emory	13-4	def. T#39 Brandeis, 83-75; def. New York University, 104-82
#25	41	Nazareth	16-1	def. Alfred, 75-66; won at St. John Fisher, 77-71

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	38	Mass-Dartmouth	14-2	def. Eastern Connecticut, 71-67; def. Western Connecticut, 110-55
#27	37	Heidelberg	14-3	def. Baldwin Wallace, 65-64; won at Wilmington, 86-60
#28	36	DeSales	17-2	LOST to Wilkes, 44-46; won at Misericordia, 84-82
#29	32	Case Western Reserve	15-2	def. Chicago, 84-66; def. #3 Washington U., 75-70
#30	16	LeTourneau	15-3	won at East Texas Baptist, 81-75; LOST at Belhaven, 73-88
#31	15	Berry	15-2	def. Birmingham-Southern, 81-75; def. Millsaps, 85-54
#32	13	RPI	15-2	won at Ithaca, 66-61; def. Union, 63-46; def. Ithaca, 73-71
#33	10	Middlebury	15-3	01/25 at SUNY-Old Westbury postponed; def. Trinity (Conn.), 82-77 3OT; def. Connecticut College, 85-71
#34	5	Wabash	15-3	won at Wittenberg, 87-69; def. Denison, 86-63; def. Wooster, 94-80
T#35	3	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	13-3	def. Caltech, 72-63; LOST to Occidental, 66-79
T#35	3	Keene State	14-3	def. Eastern Connecticut, 89-74; LOST to Plymouth State, 56-68; def. Rhode Island College, 108-83
T#37	2	Guilford	11-4	LOST at Hampden-Sydney, 58-62; won at Bridgewater (Va.), 61-43
T#37	2	Tufts	8-9	LOST to #20 Wesleyan, 64-65; won at Bowdoin, 74-53
T#39	1	Brandeis	9-4	LOST at #24 Emory, 75-83; won at Rochester, 66-61
T#39	1	Penn State-Harrisburg	16-1	won at Wells, 89-67; won at Morrisville State, 80-72

[DagarmanSpartan]

CWRU's win over #3 Washington is literally a program defining win.

[stlawus]

With regard to Massey, on more than one occasion have I seen a scrimmage or exhibition against a D3 opponent get counted as a regular season game.   If you "lost" a scrimmage against a much lower ranked team your Massey rating is obviously going to suffer as well unless you email him to make the correction.   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

It is Monday and you should try and spend your afternoon tuned into to Hoopsville!



One month. That's all that's left in the DIII regular season. It doesn't seem that long ago when the holidays marked an early half-way point and there was still lots to figure out and games to enjoy watching.

There are still lots of games still to enjoy and there is plenty to still figure out. However, just a month remains before the regular season is over and the two 64-team NCAA Tournaments will be set.

Time is running out.

On this midday edition of Hoopsville (due to schedule conflicts), we focus our attention on Regions 1 & 2 (combined), 4, 6, and 8 (the old Northeast, Atlantic, South, and Central) to talk to programs still jockeying for home court advantage in their conference playoffs or to make sure they get into the NCAAs no matter the avenue.

Guests include:
- Rodney Rogan, Rhodes women's coach
- Jon Miller, Hanover men's coach
- Top 25 Men's Double-Take
- Steven Schulman, Lehman men's coach
- Craig Dagan, Maine Maritime women's coach

Hoopsville airs LIVE 1:00 PM ET: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/jan31 (you can also watch the show On Demand or listen to the podcast after the show goes off the air).

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Randolph-Macon is the unanimous #1 pick this week: https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2021-22/week8

Lots of other movement in there.