Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeah, that's about where I had them all.

It is interesting though to see how many very good teams are in the top ten so early in the season.  It's not often the computers do so well.  The order might be debatable, but its hard to argue with any of those teams being in the top ten right now.

[Pat Coleman]

Top 25 is out.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cbasketball/ratings.htm

Scroll down to rank by division, its easier that way.

The new rankings for Massey aren't out for this week yet, but it will be interesting to see where they have everyone.

Gosh, I didn't even realize there was a Vermont Tech and I lived there for eight years.  It's not that big of a state; where could they be hiding that thing?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't understand why Puget Sound remains so high in the rankings?  Sure they were good last year, but they lost so much and their results have been so unimpressive.  They lost by 17 to IWU; they only beat George Fox and Whitman by 9 and Whitworth only by 1.  None of those West Coast schools have proven to be better than any other.  They are beating each other; it's just that UPS doesn't play the cream of the crop out west and somehow keeps their ranking.  I just don't get it.  Occidental seems a much better team, with a better record and a tougher schedule.  It blows my mind why they are so far apart.

[diehardfan]

They'll come after you with the pitchforks and torches so fast it'll make your head spin. 

Or they'll throw a haiku at you...     

One of those inevitables from being in a conference with many good academic schools. The CCIW could probably break into haikus, but there are a couple schools whose current student posters probably couldn't even spell haiku! ...not to mention that a couple of the regulars have never struck me as poets.   

Hoops Fan, I have a feeling that you may be right about Occidental being the top team in the far West Region... when I get a chance to check them out, I'll be sure to post my thoughts on the two schools, and how they might compare.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't understand why Puget Sound remains so high in the rankings?

Better to ask how they got so high than why they remain so high. They remain so high for obvious reasons: They didn't do anything this week to merit them falling.

Otherwise, I would point at the York problem -- there's a credibility question with them too, and it's hard to picture York being better than any of the teams above it. Is Augustana better? Maybe, but they lost to since-plummeted UW-Stout and only beat Elmhurst among the other big three in the CCIW (must still play IWU and North Central twice apiece).

Also, careful with margin of victory in run-and-gun games. A 17-point margin in a 104-87 game is like a 73-61 game at a normal pace.

I don't think Puget Sound is that good either, but the continual aghastness is odd considering that last week they were no different than this week in terms of ranking resume.

BTW, saw Whitman play. That team isn't awful. And they beat Mount Union, which Wilmington didn't do. Whoa, now I sound like a coach, singling out one head-to-head result that makes my point.

[Titan Q]

Posting Up Hall of Famer David Collinge has seen Puget Sound play two games and also saw the Occidental/Amherst game.  I'm interested in his take on the UPS vs Oxy issue.  I think Puget Sound is a bit too high at #7, but I do think they're a legit top 10-12 team. 

I was at the IWU/Puget Sound game in Santa Barbara, and while I certainly wasn't very impressed with the Loggers in the first half (IWU led by as much as 23), I was in the 2nd half when the effects of their system kicked in.  IWU's players were just gassed in the 2nd half and a 79-58 lead at 11:05 turned into a 90-84 lead at 4:22.  The Titans hit a couple big shots to get control of things and then secure a 17-point victory, but it did get down to 2 possessions.  After seeing that game I could certainly understand how Puget Sound came back from down 18 in the 1st half at Division I UC-Riverside.  Their full-court pressure is as intense as any you will see and they just keep coming at you.  They have two really good players - 6-6/215 senior Zach McVey and 6-2 guard Chase Curtiss.  Those two would start for any Division III team I've seen.

I think Puget Sound is a good team.  Comparing them to teams I am familiar with (in the CCIW), I'd say they are not as good as #6 Illinois Wesleyan and #9 Augustana, they are about dead even with #13 North Central, and they're better than unranked Elmhurst.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/miwu9.htm

http://www2.ups.edu/athletics/mbasketball/ups1221.htm

[David Collinge]

I've seen Puget Sound play Penn St.-Behrend at a neutral site (Caltech) and play IWU at another neutral site (Westmont), and I saw the Oxy/Amherst game, which was at Oxy.  Based only on those three games, and leaving aside some very valid concerns about travel, I'll say I was considerably more impressed with Oxy than with UPS.  It's tough to compare UPS with anyone who doesn't play the up-tempo offense and all-press defense; as Q suggests, it will keep them in a whole lot of games.  But I wonder how effective it is against a good, athletic team that has played against that style before.  If you really know what is coming, you might be better able to utilize your bench and change your gameplan to account for the fact that your players will be dog-tired by the 10:00 mark of the second half.  In a one-game matchup, I think UPS might give Oxy fits (much like how they gave IWU fits), but in a rematch I'd probably take Oxy (and I'd certainly take IWU, by 25 points or more.) 

There are some in the SCIAC room who think Oxy is inconsistent, especially when it comes to road games.  I've never seen them on the road, so I can't comment about that.  But Oxy's power forward Sam Betty played a spectacular game against Amherst, and I'd anoint him as the best player between Oxy and UPS. 

I have seen (in person) six of the top 25 teams (Wooster and UW-Stout being the others), and I'd probably rank them in pairs: first, Wooster and IWU; second, Oxy and Amherst; and third, Stout and UPS.  If I really dug down and did the research, I'd probably have Oxy somewhere near #10 and UPS more like #15-18. 

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks GS... I thought I had it right, but I figured I'd probably get a couple wrong (I mean, 25 teams, most played two games, I got two wrong... that's only 4% error, is that acceptable?  )

Aww, now you're making me feel bad, PS.  And I even tried to lessen the sting of correcting you with a compliment. My diplomacy skills must be lacking today. 

[dansand]

One of those inevitables from being in a conference with many good academic schools. The CCIW could probably break into haikus, but there are a couple schools whose current student posters probably couldn't even spell haiku! ...not to mention that a couple of the regulars have never struck me as poets.   

Limericks are really more my style than haikus.

"There once was a man from Rock Falls..."

[David Collinge]

A couple of milestones in this week's poll:

#10 Baldwin-Wallace enters the top 10 for the first time in poll history.
#24 NYU enters the top 25 for the first time in poll history.

I'd like to note, one week too late, that Wilmington reached a special milestone last week; their debut at #17 was the first time in poll history that the Quakers received any votes at all.  Quite a debut!

Congratulations to these squads on their achievements!

[sac]

Dave, here's a project for ya 

Find out how many times two conferences have had 2 teams in the top 5.  Let alone 1 conference with 2 teams.

Your homework is due tommorow afternoon.  I get home around 3:30. 

[Gregory Sager]

I have seen (in person) six of the top 25 teams

David, I was all set to feel sorry for you for your exile to D3's version of Siberia ... but it turns out that you've seen more Top 25 teams than me thus far this season. It appears that you've become the John James Audubon of D3 snowbirds.

[David Collinge]

I have seen (in person) six of the top 25 teams

David, I was all set to feel sorry for you for your exile to D3's version of Siberia ... but it turns out that you've seen more Top 25 teams than me thus far this season. It appears that you've become the John James Audubon of D3 snowbirds.

Yeah, I've been fortunate.  My total would have been 8 if a) St. Thomas had been able to hold on to their ranking, and b) I had known that Lawrence was passing through town the last week of December.   I'm afraid my total will stay at six, barring some unforeseen SCIAC miracle. 

[hugenerd]

New Massey's are out:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=6

They go something like this:
Lawrence, Wittenberg, Wooster, Carnegie Mellon, Hope...

Conferences:
UAA, WIAC, CCIW, OAC, HCAC...