Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

If all that happens, they better get some #1 votes...I know they'd have mine.

[Titan Q]

Here is a quote from Carthage head coach Bosko Djurickovic from the most recent Carthage press release...

"We're not in the ballpark with North Central.  They're the best team we've faced all year.  This was the first time, in a long, long time, that we weren't competitive at any point in the game.

http://www2.carthage.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/release.html


Bosko has played the following ranked teams this year...

#4 Hope
#5 Lawrence
#6 Illinois Wesleyan
#9 Augustana

[sac]

Maybe I'm late on this April

But I wouldn't put too much importance of margin in conference games vs non-conference.

Once you get into conference play everything is familiar, you usually know all of the opposing players and more importantly their plays.  It really becomes more a test of wills than anything else.

Familiarity adds to motivation.......I think this helps to explain IWU's troubles in the CCIW as well as other close conference tilts we've seen and will see.

Albion v Kzoo is a rivalry game, the schools are right down the highway from each other.  A close margin in that game is not unusual by any means.  The talent gap becomes less important in games such as this.  Plus at this point Kzoo has played about 12 more games since that Wooster game.  I hope they're a better team by now.

[Titan Q]

Sac, I heard an interview recently with U. of Illinois head coach Bruce Weber.  He was asked about the difference between playing good teams in the non-conference and conference games (Illinois was undefeated in the non-conf and has lost at Iowa and at Indiana in the Big Ten).  He said something like, "It's night and day.  Once you get into the conference, everyone knows your players and exactly what you're trying to run.  They break down every bit of film and expose any weakness you have.  People know you in the non-conference, but the degree of scouting and preparation within the conference is much greater."

This is no different at all in Division III.  During the Santa Barbara trip, IWU head coach Scott Trost was joking about a conversation he had with North Central coach Todd Raridon.  Scott was asking which IWU non-conference tapes Todd wanted per CCIW tape exchange rules and Todd responded, "Just send us the games in California...we have all of your other games already."  Raridon had sought out tape on all 8 of IWU's non-conference games before Christmas from opponsing coaches.

This is the same in the MIAA, WIAC, NCAC, etc - when you get into conference play, it's a whole new ballgame.  This is why Illinois looked a whole lot better vs Missouri than they have vs Iowa and Indiana, and the reason Illinois Wesleyan looked a lot better vs St. Xavier and Westmont (teams every bit as talented as good CCIW teams) than they have in their 5 conference games.

The great teams adjust to the adjustments...that's where it gets fun.

[David Collinge]

The Wooster/Kalamazoo game was the first game of the season for both teams.  FWIW.

Tom Port, Wooster's All-America candidate power forward, reportedly suffered one broken and one sprained wrist last night, the result of a hard foul by a Hiram player on a dunk.  I haven't heard anything about how long he'll be out.  Wooster has tough(-ish) games each of the next three Saturdays: vs. 10-6 OWU (1/21), vs. 7-8 Earlham (1/28), and at #1 15-1 Wittenberg (2/4.)

[cardinalpride]

Here is a quote from Carthage head coach Bosko Djurickovic from the most recent Carthage press release...

"We're not in the ballpark with North Central.  They're the best team we've faced all year.  This was the first time, in a long, long time, that we weren't competitive at any point in the game.

http://www2.carthage.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/release.html


Bosko has played the following ranked teams this year...

#4 Hope
#5 Lawrence
#6 Illinois Wesleyan
#9 Augustana

TQ, I think Bosko has a short memory!

[Gregory Sager]

Another question... what do you do with IWU?

While they are certainly overflowing with talent, and are feeling some good karma and momentum now, after their overtime win vs their rival Wheaton...

Oh, really? If I was a Titans fan, I sure wouldn't be feeling "some good karma and momentum" after last night's game. Granted, Wheaton is doing what young teams with potential often do -- they're improving every game. Nevertheless, they were still 5-8 going into last night's game. And to anyone who has seen the two teams this season, it's patently obvious that there are serious talent and size gaps between them to go with the experience gap. Finally, the game was played in Illinois Wesleyan's gym.

All things considered, if I was a Titans fan and I was walking out of the gym after watching my team eke out that overtime win last night, I'd be equal parts relieved and worried. "Good karma and momentum" are the last things I'd think my team had.

[sac]

Q----I literally turned to an Albion guy next to me and told him it looked like Albion knew all of Hope's defensive tendencies.  I don't think I'm far off, they had Hope scouted well.

I really don't know how much work Hope does with game tapes, they seem to be a little more old school when it comes to scouting teams.

I don't know if its the same in the CCIW but pretty much half of the MIAA teams play in the same summer league along with a number of NAIA teams.  These players are certainly familiar with each other.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Amen, Greg,

And I've been pumping up Wheaton on several boards lately (if they could restart the season with how they are playing NOW, there is NO WAY they would be 5-9).  Still, IWU should have won handily in Bloomington.

I predicted just 3 or 4 weeks ago that Wheaton would finish 7th in the CCIW.  I now think they are a credible possibility to make the initial tourney.  I'd still say the most likely candidates are (in alphabetical order, 'cause I sure have no idea anymore of the bball order!) Augie, Elmhurst, IWU, and NCC.  But both Millikin and Wheaton are definite threats to finish in the top four.

[Titan Q]

IWU players, fans, coaches (and color analysts for that matter) all seemed to feel great about the way IWU played last night, Greg.  I've had a chance to talk to a lot of people today in passing who were at the game and all seem to have the same feeling -- it was simply a great college basketball game.  A Wheaton grad. co-worker of mine summed it up best.  Regarding his Wheaton Thunder he said, "That is the best I have seen a team play in my life and lose."

I can see where you're coming from, and Mr. Ypsi too, as two people just looking at the game on paper, but you're off in your assessment of how people who were at that game feel.  Those who saw the shots Wiele, Fiddler, and Mohan hit just simply tip their cap the Wheaton College, as I do, and say, "great game."  IWU shot 54.7% from the field, had All-American Keelan Amelianovich (27 pts) hit a game saving shot, had All-American Dauksas score 12 pts w/ 9 assists and just 3 T.O., and had a 16 point, 18 rebound performance by junior Zach Freeman.  Just a fun game to watch.

By the way, same Wheaton team that was up 7 with 2:05 to play at Augie, right?  At what point do we shift from both of these games being flukes to the possibility that the young and talented Wheaton team is getting better every day and can play?

[Titan Q]

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/01/19/sports/104178.txt

A few quotes that kind of sum up that Wheaton/IWU game...

"It's a lot of fun to win again," said Amelianovich after Wesleyan's first home triumph in 28 days. "Both teams played with a lot of energy the whole game, and both teams hit a lot of big shots. It was a fun game for the players and a fun game for the fans."
-----
"It's important our guys feel good about themselves and they do in there," IWU coach Scott Trost said from just outside the Titans' locker room. "The kids just hung in there and hung in there and kept believing and found a way. We have to use this to get our confidence back. Hopefully this propels us a little bit."
-----
"That's the type of year we've had. We played hard. We had chances to win it," said Wheaton coach Bill Harris after his team's sixth loss by six points or less. "Let's face it, Keelan and Adam hit some big shots which you expect your senior All-Americans to do."
-----
The 6-foot-8 Wiele was nothing short of amazing. Having made 6 of 20 3-point attempts entering the game, Wiele nailed 6 of 8 from beyond the arc on his way to a career-high 22 points.

"We think he's going to be OK," Harris said. "Sometimes freshmen don't know enough to be scared."


I love the Harris quote about Wiele.

[Gregory Sager]

I didn't call the game a fluke, Bob. I said that Wheaton is a young team with potential that is improving every game. Nevertheless, I stand behind what I said. I would not walk out of Shirk Center last night feeling that my team had "some good karma and momentum" if I was a Titans fan, regardless of how well Wheaton played. There is a considerable gap between Illinois Wesleyan and Wheaton in terms of size, talent, and experience -- a gap which you have done more to emphasize in playing up the Titans than anyone else on Posting Up -- and the Titans were playing at home in front of over 2,000 green-clad fans to boot.

I don't doubt for a moment that Wheaton played a tremendous game, and that any accolades sent their way are well-deserved. But I don't see how this can therefore be spun into a positive for Wesleyan. You and the rest of the Titans fans on Posting Up have done far too much to build up this year's Wesleyan team for it to be otherwise. The fact that it came on the heels of Wesleyan's two CCIW losses and two other razor-thin wins over other distinctly inferior teams only amplifies my feeling that you're spin-doctoring this one.

We all know how hard it is to win in the CCIW, and we all agree that the top dog gets everyone's best game. But the gulf between the Wesleyan and Wheaton teams is too big for Titans fans to derive "good karma and momentum" from last night's home overtime win, IMO.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Q,

I didn't say it was a fluke, but a senior-dominated team (with TWO All-Americans) should easily handle a freshman-dominated team, no matter how good they are - and I say that as an up close observer of the Fab Five at Michigan.

Bill Harris is CLEARLY my early (conference) season pick for coach of the year.  No matter how good they are, I can't believe he has taken these kids this far this quickly.  (How scary would they be if they still had Kent Raymond?  Shudder! )  I've expressed my admiration for him numerous times (with their personnel losses, he's the only reason I was picking them for 7th rather than 8th), but this may be a coaching job for the ages.

Or maybe he just got "lucky", and Wiele is the second-coming of Sikma?

[diehardfan]

Maybe I'm late on this April, But I wouldn't put too much importance of margin in conference games vs non-conference.

Actually, I thought I expressed pretty clearly that I didn't think anything related to that... I was just curious what people thought the VOTERS would think. I knew it would get interpreted though. Sorta inevitable with this sorta topic. Personally, at the moment I think I have Albion OVER Wooster  And though I did think your opinions on the subject were interesting, I already agreeed with you, so

Lol... Greg, I don't necessarily think it makes sense, but I tuned into the WJBC broadcast for the last few minutes, after the Wheaton one ended, so I know that's how they feel, so I thought I'd mention it. The greenies are very resilient. 

[Gregory Sager]

Lol... Greg, I don't necessarily think it makes sense, but I tuned into the WJBC broadcast for the last few minutes, after the Wheaton one ended, so I know that's how they feel, so I thought I'd mention it. The greenies are very resilient. 

You certainly are packing a lot of innuendo into the word "resilient", aren't you? 

Incidentally, I want to publicly apologize to Q for using the term "spin-doctoring". I thought that his allegiance to Wesleyan was unduly coloring his response to Wednesday night's game, and I still do, but "spin-doctoring" was probably a needlessly inflammatory term for me to use to describe that response.