Top 25 talk

[Gregory Sager]

Am I the only one who was surprised that NYU didn't get any love from the pollsters at all? The Fighting Violets (I can't help but chuckle everytime I type NYU's nickname  ) return nine of the top ten players from a 2005-06 edition that went 18-7, 7-7 in what was probably the toughest top-to-bottom season in UAA history, and among those nine returnees are the 2006 UAA Player of the Year, 6'6 center Jason Boone, and an All-UAA second-teamer in 6'4 forward Michael DeCorso.

I'm also a bit surprised that Ramapo didn't get any votes, either. The Roadrunners return two All-NJAC guards and got a 6'5 transfer from D2 New Jersey Tech. Any time a team from that tough conference returns two players who got year-end recognition, it makes me sit up and take notice. However, given the notorious fluidity of NJAC rosters, I can better understand casting a skeptical eye at the Roadrunners than I can grasp the reason why the Fighting Violets got a similar snub.

[Knightstalker]

I can't believe that Baruch gets no preseason love.

[gordonmann]

Gents:

Some interesting ideas on some of the Atlantic/East teams who didn't get votes.  I can't answer for every voter, but here are my preliminary thoughts on the three you mentioned.

Baruch:  You know the phrase, "you never get a second chance to make a first impression."  Well, when you play in one of the smaller, generally weaker conferences of Division III, you don't get many "second chances" to impress the voters and show you deserve Top 25 consideration.

Baruch had voters' attention last year when they started 21-3 and were ranked No. 1 in the Atlantic region as I recall.  They had an even bigger opportunity to show they were legit when the NCAA made them hosts for the first two rounds of the tournament.

Unfortunately for the Bearcats didn't do much to impress national voters in either case. They finished the season by losing to Lehman, nearly losing to bottom-seed Medgar Evers in the conference tournament, losing the CUNYAC title game to York (N.Y.) and losing at home in the first round to Villa Julie (who isn't considered a power either).  They didn't get a vote in the final poll.

By contract, SUNY-Farmingdale won their tournament, beat Ursinus on the road in the first round and played Va. Wes well.  The Rams got votes in the last poll of last year and the Preseason this year.

NYU: As I've mentioned on these boards before, my biggest hesitation on NYU they seem to have great starts every year against the weaker teams in the NYC metropolitan area.  Then when they take their undefeated or one-loss record into conference play, that success disintegrates.  From what I've heard Boone is a great player.  But until the Violets start playing tougher teams early in the year or finish above .500 in the UAA, they aren't really on the radar for the Top 25.

Ramapo: I looked at the NJAC to see who else besides WPUNJ merited consideration.  I have to confess that I didn't look closely enough at Ramapo because of their 9-9 record in conference.  But two all-conference players returning for a program with fairly recent postseason success means something.  I'll keep a close eye on them over the next couple weeks.

[Knightstalker]

I was just joking about Baruch, I haven't even had time to really consider who is coming back in the NJAC.  I finally checked out the NJCU roster today.  Damn new job and having to actually work again.   

[Gregory Sager]

NYU: As I've mentioned on these boards before, my biggest hesitation on NYU they seem to have great starts every year against the weaker teams in the NYC metropolitan area.  Then when they take their undefeated or one-loss record into conference play, that success disintegrates.  From what I've heard Boone is a great player.  But until the Violets start playing tougher teams early in the year or finish above .500 in the UAA, they aren't really on the radar for the Top 25.

I know about NYU's reputation for snacking on cupcakes before the UAA season begins, GM. Unlike, say, Chicago (which always plays a tough non-conf schedule), I always dismiss the Violets' performances in November and December. Their 18-7 overall record last year was therefore not really a factor in why I thought they merited consideration for this year's preseason poll. It's the return of so many players, especially Boone and DeCorso, from a team that managed to go .500 in the toughest UAA season I can remember -- that's what made me think the Violets deserved some votes. Nobody else in the league has two All-UAA players returning, and the fact that one of them was the 2006 POY cinches it. If you wait until they've dominating the league by the end of the upcoming regular season before you start voting for the Violets, you'll have waited too long to do right by them.

While we're on the subject of the UAA, I thought Wash U would get more support in the poll than they did. I think that they have the pieces in place to have a really dynamite team this season.

[cardinalpride]

Mark your calendars now for the Mose Hole Classic, to be held at the College of Wooster Dec. 29 and 30.  The participating teams are #5 Ohio Northern, #8 Calvin, [#26] UW-La Crosse, and the host #2 Scots.  The opening round pairs Calvin and LaX, then ONU and Wooster, with the winners and losers squaring off the following day.  That's a pretty nice field for a holiday tournament!

I'd say!!

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Gregory Sager-

Yes it was possible national champions.  I am well aware that can't be a final 4.  If It was my final 4 I would have said final 4.  I said possible champions, not possible final 4.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There's a top tier in the E-NE regions that NYU just hasn't seemed able to enter yet.  I'd agree that they need to do more in conference before they get that kind of consideration.  Brandeis has an equally talented team that no one in New England looks forward to playing, but when they do appear on the big boys' schedules, they usually end up on the losing end.  It's those big wins against better teams that need to increase.

[njlincolnlion]

Hoops Fan:

Thanks for your response, I think Lincoln has establish a sound program during the last two years (I believe the Lions were 47-12 over the last two years under Coach Yuille).  Two years ago, the Lions had an All American in Jarrett Kearse.  Last year Kyle Myrick was an All American and D3Hoops POY.  This year Sami Wylie should be an All American candidate, and the Lions have two 6'7 forwards who transferred in along with last years team (minus Myrick) and two excellent freshman guards.

Lincoln again starts most of their game on the road, which has made the team "battle tested" when playing in tournaments.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

What is it that I said, because if you want some evidence I can back up my picks up.

[Pat Coleman]

There's a top tier in the E-NE regions that NYU just hasn't seemed able to enter yet.  I'd agree that they need to do more in conference before they get that kind of consideration. 

I don't think they've entered the second tier, either, the one with teams such as Gordon, WPI, etc. last year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Far be it from me to argue with Pat, who definately has seen more basketball than me, but I wouldn't put last year's Gordon and WPI teams in the same breath either.  Regardless, NYU and like schools won't get the love until they prove they can compete and win against the best in some form or another.

[gordonmann]

Gregory--

That's a fair point on NYU, I suppose.  My only counter would be that NYU wasn't a Top 25 with those guys last year.  Maybe they aren't Top 25 again this year with those guys either.

That's not to say they shouldn't have had a couple votes. They just wouldn't have had mine.

[FisherDynasty]

NYU or UofR whomever ousts who at home this year, since UofR is so tough to be at the Palestria, should take the #1 spot in the East Region this year, with St. John Fisher who lost a lot of last years guard play but returning some studs inside and a terrific freshmen class should be following a close third.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Did you see that RIC score?  I know it was just exhibition, but is there more info?  Did Iona not play their starters or what?


Can RIC really be that good?