Top 25 talk

[Ralph Turner]

This is NOT a prediction (in fact I highly doubt it), but it would not TOTALLY shock me if Virginia Wesleyan, Ohio Wesleyan, and Illinois Wesleyan all made the final four.  What I can't find is the fourth member to make it a clean sweep. 

Coach Holmes had all three of his big men decide in the first week in August not to play this year, each for various reasons.  Otherwise, I was counting on McMurry as a Methodist 4th!

[David Collinge]

I'd hope for a final four of Anna Maria, Lawrence, Alma, and Hiram, but I'm afraid it might turn into a rubber of bridge.   

[Titan Q]

Game 1 from the CCIW/MIAA Challenge...

Wheaton 73
#10 Calvin 62


Wheaton, IL and Grand Rapids, MI are 202 miles apart, so to the NCAA, this game basically didn't happen.

Carthage vs #5 Hope tips in a few minutes.

[Titan Q]

Game 2 from the CCIW/MIAA Challenge (@ Carthage):

Carthage 71
#5 Hope 65

Carthage is picked to finish 7th in the CCIW preseason coaches poll, which is pretty consistent with where the CCIW Chat posters have them.  I didn't consider Wheaton over Calvin on a neutral court much of an upset, but this one certainly was.

I'm not sure the CCIW has a national title contender this year, but I can't remember a season with this much parity, top to bottom.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Game 2 from the CCIW/MIAA Challenge (@ Carthage):

Carthage 71
#5 Hope 65

Carthage is picked to finish 7th in the CCIW preseason coaches poll, which is pretty consistent with where the CCIW Chat posters have them.  I didn't consider Wheaton over Calvin on a neutral court much of an upset, but this one certainly was.

I'm not sure the CCIW has a national title contender this year, but I can't remember a season with this much parity, top to bottom.

Q, bite your tongue!

While I'm 'not sure' the CCIW has a title contender, I certainly wouldn't rule out NCC (with their amazing front line) or for that matter our Titans (it helps that two of them are twins, and the rest played together on JV!).  And I'd never totally rule out a team led by Bill Harris and Kent Raymond.  Then you've got teams led by Giovananne and Bosko.  NEVER say that the CCIW has no title contender - while some years are disappointing, they ALWAYS have someone who is a contender (even if they don't make the 'sweet 16')!

[John Gleich]

Per the live stats on UPS's website, Willamette is leading in OT with :26 121-117

[John Gleich]

UPS came back and forced 3 TO's and scored a couple of layups, going to double OT.

[John Gleich]

Wow, going to 3rd OT.  I wish I could catch a radio feed... I've just got the live stats!   131-131

[John Gleich]

UPS wins a thriller 140-137 in 3 OT against 1-win Willamette

[Titan Q]

Game 2 from the CCIW/MIAA Challenge (@ Carthage):

Carthage 71
#5 Hope 65

Carthage is picked to finish 7th in the CCIW preseason coaches poll, which is pretty consistent with where the CCIW Chat posters have them.  I didn't consider Wheaton over Calvin on a neutral court much of an upset, but this one certainly was.

I'm not sure the CCIW has a national title contender this year, but I can't remember a season with this much parity, top to bottom.

Q, bite your tongue!

While I'm 'not sure' the CCIW has a title contender, I certainly wouldn't rule out NCC (with their amazing front line) or for that matter our Titans (it helps that two of them are twins, and the rest played together on JV!).  And I'd never totally rule out a team led by Bill Harris and Kent Raymond.  Then you've got teams led by Giovananne and Bosko.  NEVER say that the CCIW has no title contender - while some years are disappointing, they ALWAYS have someone who is a contender (even if they don't make the 'sweet 16')!

Chuck, having been to 9 of the last 10 Division III Final Fours, I have a good feel for what a national championship contender looks like.  Last year's IWU team, for example...this year's Wooster team.  Teams with good inside/outside balance, great depth, chemistry, one or more go-to guys, etc..  There is a big, big difference between a "Sweet 16 contender" - which the CCIW has every year, maybe even multiple - and a "national championship contender."

Right now all of the CCIW teams have big questions to answer.  North Central is the league favorite but their backcourt is a huge issue...Illinois Wesleyan has an All-American post player and a nice starting 5, but absolutely no depth...Augustana has a ton of depth, but is still looking for that one go-to guy...Wheaton may have the best guard in Division III and a great perimeter game, but it is to be determined if they have enough low post play...Elmhurst has a great 4/5, but do they have enough perimeter play...Carthage is lacking another good big guy to compliment Schlemm...etc. 

Your statement, "...I certainly wouldn't rule out NCC (with their amazing front line) or for that matter our Titans (it helps that two of them are twins, and the rest played together on JV!).  And I'd never totally rule out a team led by Bill Harris and Kent Raymond.  Then you've got teams led by Giovananne and Bosko..." sounds warm and fuzzy, but lacks substance.  I pull for the CCIW teams as hard as anyone and I hope some of the key questions above get answered positively, but until then I am going to call it like it is.

[John Gleich]

Great commentary Q!

Both years I was in Salem with Point, the four teams that made it were very balanced inside and outside, with great go-to guys.  A great example would be the Williams team that won the championship in '03 and that we just barely beat in '04.  With Crotty and Coffin, they had two legitimate All-Americans who could take over games.

Ironically, it was Chuck Abba and Tucker Kain who almost won the game for Williams.  These two guys combined for 44 of Williams' 82 pts and combined shooting 10/20 from deep.  I guess it just shows that, even more than the star power, National contenders have a supporting cast for their star(s) who can carry the load if asked to.  At Point, we had Gruscynski, Krull, Relerford, Maus, all guys who could, and did step up and hit shots, get steals, rebounds, hit half-court shots (TWICE)...

I really like this year's Point team too.  They seem to have just about the deepest compliment of excellent guards that I've seen in D-3.  But Point seriously lacks an inside scoring threat other than Krull, and at 6'4", he can't maneuver inside against 7 footers.  It also seems they should struggle defending teams with good big guys inside, but somehow that didn't seem to make a difference on Wednesday... Still beat Oshkosh despite Kerry Gibson inside, though Point did hit 54% of their 3's, 90% of their free throws, and had an 18-2 assist to TO ratio.  Also, last year, they beat Stout 2/3 and Oshkosh 1/2, both teams with significant inside threats.

I think that, right now, the CCIW has some growing pains to go through, but by the time late February and March come around, there will be one team (or more) that will begin to pull away due to the in-league schedule... when you can't take a night off, it really prepares you for big games in February and March!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Anyone have any info on this Lincoln 201 point game?

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  #2 Wooster 84  Earlham 62

Wooster was led today by Tom Port with 19 points, Brandon Johnson with 17 points, Tim Vandervaart with 14 points and James Cooper with 11 points.  Scots shot 58% from the floor and they also made 8 three pointers to stretch the lead in this game.

Wooster is now 5-0.  Scots next play at Oberlin on 12/6.

GO SCOTS!

[sac]

Safe to say these two will drop significantly

previous #10 Calvin lost two this weekend
Wheaton 73 Calvin 62
Carthage 74 Calvin 54

I saw the Calvin v Carthage game and it was a dominating win by Carthage,  Calvin has lost to all 3 of the other teams in the MIAA/CCIW challenge by 22, 11 and 20......and didn't look good doing it.


previous #5 Hope lost two this weekend
Carthage 72 Hope 65
Wheaton 73 Hope 70

Hope had chances to win both particularly the Wheaton game but simply executed poorly in the final minutes of both games.  Hope has looked good in all 3 games I've seen.


I would really look at Carthage if I were voting, they were very impressive in my eyes, of course I saw them win by 20.  Its a good team and so far they've played 4 games against tournament teams from last year and won 3 of those 4.  Pretty impressive.

[John Gleich]

RE Lincoln, look at my comments in the blog section.  I watched SportsCenter tonight and it made #4 (?).  I watched a Lincoln player steal the ball as it was being brought up at half court and pull up for three, with noone in front of him defending the basket.  That's just trying to run up the score, that is playing without class.