Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

I guess the next question is this.... does a loss to a good NAIA team drop Woo from the top spot in the nation?

[Pat Coleman]

Good question. It's not like Cal Baptist is unbeatable, like when Calvin went west and played Biola and Azusa Pacific in 1999-2000.

[Gregory Sager]

Good question. It's not like Cal Baptist is unbeatable, like when Calvin went west and played Biola and Azusa Pacific in 1999-2000.

It's a little hard to get a read on just how good Cal Baptist is by GSAC standards. While I doubt that they're up to the level of those Biola and Azusa Pacific teams of seven years ago, the Lancers did take Pepperdine to overtime in a preseason exhibition, and they played D2 CSU-Stanislaus tough a couple of weeks ago. On the other hand, while I'm wary of doing the comparative-scores thing, I should also point out that Cal Baptist lost to a Concordia (OR) team that was in turn beaten by a nothing-special squad out of the NWC, Willamette (3-6, 0-2). Plus, the Cal Baptist website explicitly refers to the win over Wooster as an upset and uses the adjective "stunning" to describe the victory. The implication in the article is that Wooster's wins over three nationally-ranked NAIA teams counts for much in Cal Baptist's estimation of their foe; reading the game story (headlined rather ridiculously, "When the Wooster crows"), one gets the distinct impression that Wooster's resume led the Lancers supporters to think that this game was going to be an uphill battle for their team.

All in all, it's hard for anyone who hasn't seen Cal Baptist to say just how difficult a test they present by D3 standards. I'm sure that the Lancers are good, but how good? Answer that, if you can, and you'll be able to answer the question of how this should affect Wooster in the next Top 25 poll.

[Titan Q]

The GSAC is one to the top 2 or 3 NAIA D1 leagues.  I've seen two Illinois Wesleyan games vs Westmont College on holiday trips.  In 1997, IWU's national championship team defeated Westmont by 8.  Last year IWU won by 18 while ranked #1 in Division III.   Both times I left very impressed with the talent level at Westmont, and I believe those Westmont teams both finished middle of the GSAC pack.

I don't know anything about Cal Baptist's 2006-07 team, but on paper it was probably a game a lot like IWU's last year vs Westmont.  Going into that one I looked at it like a road game vs a CCIW contender -- it was going to be tough, but one the #1 team in the nation should win.  (Westmont was not quite as good as the 4 teams that made the CCIW conference tourney last year, but just a notch behind.)  IWU played well in that game and handled Westmont on their floor.   I am guessing Wooster had a little bit of an off-night and Cal Baptist played well.  It was probably an upset, but not anything to get too worked up over. 

Now, if Cal Baptist goes on to win the GSAC or maybe even finish 2nd, I'll change my tune to say Wooster was not really even favored to win the game. 

[ScotsFan]

Like Titan Q said, it's really too early to determine how much of an upset it was, if it was an upset at all.  A couple of things Wooster can take from this loss is that they won't be facing a 6'9" 270 lb. Div I transfer the rest of the season.  And another is that this loss doesn't exhist in the eyes of the NCAA so it doesn't really hurt them in terms of when seedings for the tournament are handed out. 

As for the #1 ranking, I wouldn't be surpised to see Amherst take over as the #1 team.  They are undefeated after all.  It's just a matter of how far Wooster will drop IMO.  Do they just swap places with Amherst or does Va. Wes. pass them as well.  After all, their only loss is looking better and better the more Averett keeps winning.

[Pat Coleman]

I am not blown away by Averett. There's a lot of road in that league, back to back road games on weekends. And their leading scorer broke his hand and is out for at least another four weeks.

[David Collinge]

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.  Pat, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't expect that there will be a new poll this Tuesday.  That's been the tradition in the past, not to have a poll on the Tuesday nearest Christmas.  If so, the next poll would be released on or about Jan. 2 and include games played up to and including Dec. 31.  Between now and then, Wooster will have played #7 Ohio Northern as well as either Calvin or UW-La Crosse; Amherst will have played at Trinity (TX); Va. Wesleyan will have played two tough games in Belton, TX; #4 St. Thomas will have played La Crosse; #5 Stevens Point will have played #9 Augustana; and so on.  There's a lot of good hoops left before we have to take up the debate of who's number 1.

[David Collinge]

Top 25 games, 12/18-25:

#1 Wooster (9-1) lost at Cal Baptist 94-89
#2 Amherst (8-0) is idle
#3 Virginia Wesleyan  (7-1) is idle
#4 St. Thomas (6-1) lost to UW-La Crosse 62-54
#5 UW-Stevens Point (9-0) plays at Regis (CO) Sat.
#6 Wittenberg (7-2) lost at #7 Ohio Northern 68-51 and won at Otterbein 79-72
#7 Ohio Northern (8-1) def. #6 Wittenberg 68-51
#8 Whitworth (10-0) is idle
#9 Augustana (9-1) def. Rckford 78-44
#10 William Paterson (8-1) plays at CCNY Sat.
#11 Mississippi College (7-1) def. Tex. Lutheran 77-53
#12 Averett (9-0) def. Marymount 88-72
#13 Johns Hopkins (9-0) is idle
#14 Lawrence (4-3) lost at UW-Oshkosh 88-75
#15 Puget Sound (8-1) plays at Chapman today
#16 Bates (8-0) is idle
#17 Wheaton (IL) (5-3) is idle
#18 Carthage (8-1) def. Olivet 82-63 and Marietta 82-51, both at Las Vegas
#19 Hope (6-2) def. Purdue-North Central 88-79
#20 Chicago (7-1) is idle
#21 UW-Platteville (6-2) is idle
#22 DePauw (8-1) won at Kenyon 53-52
#23 NYU (7-0) is idle
#24 North Central (5-3) won at Benedictine 74-54, lost to Lincoln 75-53 at Orlando, and plays Gwynedd-Mercy Fri. in Orlando
#25 Christopher Newport (5-3) lost to John Carroll 92-71 and plays Fisk today, both in Greensboro NC

[Ralph Turner]

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.  Pat, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't expect that there will be a new poll this Tuesday.  That's been the tradition in the past, not to have a poll on the Tuesday nearest Christmas.  If so, the next poll would be released on or about Jan. 2 and include games played up to and including Dec. 31.  Between now and then, Wooster will have played #7 Ohio Northern as well as either Calvin or UW-La Crosse; Amherst will have played at Trinity (TX); Va. Wesleyan will have played two tough games in Belton, TX; #4 St. Thomas will have played La Crosse; #5 Stevens Point will have played #9 Augustana; and so on.  There's a lot of good hoops left before we have to take up the debate of who's number 1.

The UMHB tourney should be a good one.  Ripon is the 4th.  UMHB plays well at home and they have a beautiful new facility.

HSU is "dinged up".  Dinkins and Peters are out, and Zach Pickelman is playing with a hurt wrist.

VWC can show us what it takes to get to Salem.

[David Collinge]

Just saw this posted in the NESCAC room:

The next vote is scheduled for release Jan. 3.

[Titan Q]

Wooster would still be my #1 if I had to submit a ballot today.

As a voter, the team I am struggling with is Amherst.  I have a hard time considering them for #1 with the schedule they've played so far.  Take out Brandeis, and the other 7 are a combined 19-42. 

Not saying Amherst isn't a #1 caliber team, but I feel like I have no way to verify that right now.  Several unranked teams I have seen - like Wash U, Elmhurst, UW-Whitewater, and Illinois Wesleyan - could be 8-0 with that schedule.  I know Brandeis is tough, but I think the four I mentioned above could beat them at home.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Amherst&team=m

[David Collinge]

Top 25 scores post (above) has been updated to reflect these scores:

UW-La Crosse 62
at #4 St. Thomas 54

#6 Wittenberg 79
at Otterbein 72

[John Gleich]

Congrats to Coach Koelbl and crew!

[Pat Coleman]

Isaac Rosefelt did not dress for the Tommies tonight.

[Greek Tragedy]

Isaac Rosefelt did not dress for the Tommies tonight.

I understand that Rosefelt is a key part of the Tommie's success.  But, I don't think that should taint La Crosse's win in Minnesota tonight.  You play with who you got.