Top 25 talk

[Pat Coleman]

However, who are you picking if they meet again at full strength?  That's the real question.

And that's the one that's most close to what I would consider with a Top 25 vote.

[Mr. Downtown]

I think with St. Thomas losing to La Crosse is just another example of how strong the WIAC is this year.

[njlincolnlion]

Old School:

Two of the "Lincoln Five" were starters, and two were key reserves.

[Titan Q]

Sure got a lot of response and conversation going with this topic!  I'll have to argue more!

BTW, after the suspensions of FIVE Lincoln players (any of those starters), Lincoln still went out and smoked North Central by 20 or so...what are the thoughts on that?  I was just curious since losing five players and possibly some starters must have had some kind effect on their team, and yets they beat a ranked North Central team.

North Central has really struggled in the non-conference season.  After being picked to win the CCIW in the preseason coaches poll, the Cardinals have lost 3 games -- at home to Aurora by 16, on a neutral court to a bad NAIA Harris-Stowe team by 9, and the recent blowout at the hands of Lincoln.

North Central has a fantastic returning frontline - led by Daniel Walton and D3hoops.com preseason All-American Anthony Simmons - but they lost their backcourt from last year.  They started the year going with two very average seniors at the guard spots but they've already made the switch to their two really promising freshmen guards.  NCC will probably be a very good team at some point this season, but they're still finding their way right now.

[Titan Q]

Should be another fun year of following the CCIW.  The best 4 in the non-conference have been:

#9 Augustana (9-1) - home win by 2 over Wash U, blowout loss @ NAIA St. Ambrose
#17 Carthage  (8-1) - wins over Hope, Calvin, and Lawrence
#18 Wheaton (5-3) - D3 losses to #8 Whitworth and #20 Chicago, 2-pt loss @ Northwestern, wins over Hope and Calvin
RV Elmhurst (8-1) - wins over UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater

North Central (5-3) is current #24, but will probably fall out in the next poll.  Illinois Wesleyan (6-4) has lost to 3 good Division III teams (Ohio Wesleyan, Wash U, and Chicago) and has pretty good wins @ UW-Whitewater and @ Hanover.  IWU should keep getting better as the season progresses.  North Park (8-3) is much improved and appears poised to give everyone trouble, especially at home.   Millikin (5-4) looks like the #8 team right now, but there is a lot of talent on the Big Blue roster.  They're trying to work a lot of freshmen in right now.

I think Augustana is overrated at #9 -- I believe the CCIW's top four this year (whoever those turn out to be) all belong in the 15-25 range.  I'm sticking with my theory that the CCIW doesn't really have a Top 10-type team this year - it may have had 4 last year - but there is a ton of parity. 

Augustana plays @ #9 UW-Stevens Point on 12/30.  Augie has been without their 6-9/230 center Dain Swetella for the last 3 games and sounds like he won't play vs UW-SP.

[Greek Tragedy]

Augustana plays @ #9 UW-Stevens Point on 12/30.  Augie has been without their 6-9/230 center Dain Swetella for the last 3 games and sounds like he won't play vs UW-SP.

Very nice review on the CCIW "preseason" schedule, Titan.    I might come up with something for th WIAC. 

Anyway, if that center plays, that would be a big boost to Augie's chances.  Point is very small along the front line, but we do have plenty of players to throw at the big guys in the middle.  We have been able to limit most opposing big guys thus far and Krull has done an excellent job containing them...offensively, it's a lot easier for Krull if he doesn't have to shoot over some guy like 7 footer Gibson or get bumped around like I heard he did a little against a monster like Werner.

From what I remember, Brian Schmitting from Ripon was the only big guy to really have his way.

[dansand]

Augustana plays @ #9 UW-Stevens Point on 12/30.  Augie has been without their 6-9/230 center Dain Swetella for the last 3 games and sounds like he won't play vs UW-SP.

Q,
Dain was dressed and, according to what I heard, could've played Wednesday against Rockford (which would have been pointless). With another nine days of rest I would think he'd be ready to go against the Pointers. If he is, the bigger question is how well will he play. He hasn't had a very good year so far. If he plays the way he's capable and they can get Oliver Rorer back healthy I don't think Top Ten is out of the question, but I would have to agree with you, I definitely don't think they're the 9th best team in the country right now.

[AndOne]

IMHO there is NO WAY Augie is the #9 team in the country currently. Dan is correct.

LOOK at the teams they have beaten.
St. Norbert, Beloit, Clarke, Cornell, & Rockford are all very bad to terrible. They have a combined 9 wins!

Simpson & Wartburg are a combined 1 game over .500.

Washington & Coe are the only decent teams they have beaten, and most CCIW fans would tell you those wins should have been expected even though both teams have a very good record to date.

[Pat Coleman]

Agreed.

[AndOne]

With regard to the above posts concerning the LaCrosse win over St. Thomas-----

I saw Rosefelt play last year, and would say he was probably the single best player I saw the entire season. This includes seeing the CCIW's predominant studs several times. I submit that assessment is supported by his selection this season as a FIRST TEAM pre-season All-American.

While its true that "you play with whats available," I feel that should Rosefelt have been available, the odds that the outcome would have been a LaCrosse victory, would have been veryyyy long indeed.

It was certainly a good win for LaCrosse. I do think it was fortunate they caught St. Thomas on the particular night they did.
 

[David Collinge]

Top 25 games, 12/18-24 (complete):

#1 Wooster (9-1) lost at Cal Baptist 94-89
#2 Amherst (8-0) is idle
#3 Virginia Wesleyan  (7-1) is idle
#4 St. Thomas (6-1) lost to UW-La Crosse 62-54
#5 UW-Stevens Point (9-0) is idle (their game at Regis (CO) Sat. was cancelled)
#6 Wittenberg (7-2) lost at #7 Ohio Northern 68-51 and won at Otterbein 79-72
#7 Ohio Northern (8-1) def. #6 Wittenberg 68-51
#8 Whitworth (10-0) is idle
#9 Augustana (9-1) def. Rockford 78-44
#10 William Paterson (8-1) won at CCNY 63-51
#11 Mississippi College (7-1) def. Tex. Lutheran 77-53
#12 Averett (9-0) def. Marymount 88-72
#13 Johns Hopkins (9-0) is idle
#14 Lawrence (4-3) lost at UW-Oshkosh 88-75
#15 Puget Sound (9-1) won at Chapman 117-111 (OT)
#16 Bates (8-0) is idle
#17 Wheaton (IL) (5-3) is idle
#18 Carthage (8-1) def. Olivet 82-63 and Marietta 82-51, both at Las Vegas
#19 Hope (6-2) def. Purdue-North Central 88-79
#20 Chicago (7-1) is idle
#21 UW-Platteville (6-2) is idle
#22 DePauw (8-1) won at Kenyon 53-52
#23 NYU (7-0) is idle
#24 North Central (5-3) won at Benedictine 74-54, lost to Lincoln 75-53 at Orlando, and def. Gwynedd-Mercy 66-44 in Orlando
#25 Christopher Newport (5-4) lost to John Carroll 92-71 and lost to Fisk 72-71, both in Greensboro NC

Happy Holidays!!!

[Greek Tragedy]

Through four weeks

TEAM	Tot. Pts.	Pre	Week 1	Week 2	Week 3	Week 4
Wooster	2996	538	594	620	622	622
Virg Wesleyan	2880	623	623	521	548	565
Amherst	2822	512	553	581	590	586
St. Thomas	2369	310	457	518	541	543
Ohio Northern	2332	397	510	560	431	434
Wittenberg	2204	298	461	506	471	468
Stevens Point	1997	122	320	481	537	537
William Paterson	1502	355	239	237	317	354
Whitworth	1422	57	168	353	420	424
Lawrence	1370	241	200	341	355	233
Augustana	1310	126	256	243	320	365
Mississippi College	1287	289	143	230	303	322
Hope	1087	237	484	116	100	150
Lincoln	972	216	308	253	178	17
Whitewater	850	406	325	105	10	4
Johns Hopkins	813	41	93	153	259	267
Bates	808	83	110	187	205	223
Baldwin-Wallace	808	363	282	70	53	40
Puget Sound	789	141	97	128	198	225
Calvin	778	347	311	64	19	37
North Central	739	182	273	151	63	70
Randolph-Macon	720	231	291	198	N/A	N/A
Platteville	690	21	60	211	264	134
Averett	685	N/A	15	141	243	286
Oshkosh	580	87	160	218	63	52
Wheaton (IL)	542	35	46	106	143	212
Christopher Newport	421	191	34	59	68	69
DePauw	398	45	59	86	82	126
Occidental	357	178	68	40	28	43
Tufts	328	251	33	13	12	19
Aurora	323	11	22	108	154	28
La Crosse	313	93	8	66	123	23
Carthage	313	N/A	N/A	52	69	192
Chicago	297	11	19	37	89	141
Carroll	262	203	42	17	N/A	N/A
Hampden-Sydney	255	160	46	49	N/A	N/A
Maryville (TN)	173	135	27	11	N/A	N/A
New York Univ.	163	N/A	N/A	32	59	72
Rochester	162	62	37	37	13	13
Gordon	160	57	40	50	13	N/A
Ill. Wesleyan	149	63	69	17	N/A	N/A
Brandeis	134	N/A	1	29	54	50
Washington U.	118	3	7	29	38	41
Worc. Poly	114	49	12	11	20	22
Ohio Wesleyan	83	11	17	47	4	4
Utica	80	26	18	12	12	12
Rhode Island C.	67	1	36	7	9	14
York (NY)	64	N/A	64	N/A	N/A	N/A
Catholic	64	28	32	4	N/A	N/A
Transylvania	52	51	1	N/A	N/A	N/A
Elmhurst	45	16	N/A	N/A	N/A	29
York (Pa)	32	31	1	N/A	N/A	N/A
Hamilton	29	8	9	12	N/A	N/A
Gust. Adolph.	27	27	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
St. John Fish.	26	26	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Widener	24	24	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Salem St.	24	4	3	1	4	12
Buena Vista	24	23	1	N/A	N/A	N/A
Ramapo	21	N/A	2	N/A	9	10
Rutgers-Newark	19	N/A	N/A	N/A		19
Coe	18	11	6	1	N/A	N/A
Guilford	17	N/A	N/A		3	14
Stout	15	6	9	N/A	N/A	N/A
Mary Hard-Bay.	15	15	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Clare.-Mudd-Scr	14	14	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Mass-Boston	12	12	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Southwestern	11	N/A	11	N/A	N/A	N/A
Keene St.	9	N/A	N/A	5	3	1
New Jersey City	8	1	7	N/A	N/A	N/A
Ursinus	7	7	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Manchester	6	N/A	5	1	N/A	N/A
John Carroll	5	N/A	N/A	N/A	5	N/A
Hardin-Simmons	5	5	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Cortland St.	4	4	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
SUNY-Farmingdale	2	2	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
Bluffton	2	N/A	N/A	N/A	1	1
Williams	1	1	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A
King's	1	1	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A

[Darryl Nester]

Small correction, Old School -- Bluffton has received one point in each of the last two polls, not 1+4, so they should be down with SUNY-Farmingdale.

(Good heavens, am I really posting on Christmas Eve?  How pathetic is that ...)

[Greek Tragedy]

Small correction, Old School -- Bluffton has received one point in each of the last two polls, not 1+4, so they should be down with SUNY-Farmingdale.

(Good heavens, am I really posting on Christmas Eve?  How pathetic is that ...)

Not sure where I came up with that, on excel, I had it right, not sure how that happened...anyway, not only are you posting on Christmas Eve, you're correcting MY posts! lol 

[David Collinge]

Top 25 games, 12/25-31 -- LOTS of holiday tournaments (UPDATED with Friday's results):

#1 Wooster (9-2) lost to Ohio Northern 91-84 and hosts Calvin Sat.
#2 Amherst (8-0) is at Trinity (TX) Sun.
#3 Virginia Wesleyan (7-2) lost at Mary Hardin-Baylor 63-62 and plays Hardin-Simmons Sat., at UMHB
#4 St. Thomas (7-1) def. St. Scholastica 82-76 and plays UW-River Falls Sat, both at River Falls
#5 UW-Stevens Point (9-1) lost at Northern Michigan 101-92 and hosts #9 Augustana Sat.
#6 Wittenberg (8-2) def. York (NY) 69-62 and hosts IU-Southeast Sat.
#7 Ohio Northern (9-1) won at Wooster 91-84 and plays UW-La Crosse Sat., both at Wooster
#8 Whitworth (10-0) is idle
#9 Augustana (9-1) plays at #5 UW-Stevens Point Sat.
#10 William Paterson (9-1) is idle
#11 Mississippi College (8-1) def Johns Hopkins 75-51 and plays Westmont (CA) Sat. at Westmont
#12 Averett (9-0) is idle
#13 Johns Hopkins (9-1) lost to Mississippi College 75-51 and plays Thomas More Sat. at Westmont (CA)
#14 Lawrence (5-3) def. Allegheny 69-57 and def. Ursinus 70-65, both at Daytona Beach
#15 Puget Sound (9-1) is idle (lost exhibition to Simon Fraser 101-93)
#16 Bates (8-0) is idle
#17 Wheaton (IL) (6-3) def. Nazareth 94-89 (OT) and plays Rivier Sat., both at Staten Island
#18 Carthage (8-1) plays at Lewis Sat.
#19 Hope (7-2) def. Trinity Christian 69-53 and hosts Rochester (MI) Sat.
#20 Chicago (7-2) lost to Coe 70-67 and hosts Cornell (IA) Sat.
#21 UW-Platteville (7-2) def. Richard Stockton 64-51 and plays Randolph-Macon Sat., both at R-MC
#22 DePauw (9-1) def. U. of Dallas 104-78 and plays Hamilton Sat. at Tampa
#23 NYU (8-0) def. SUNY-Old Westbury 85-55 and hosts Clark Sat.
#24 North Central (IL) (6-3) def. Albion 69-58 and plays at Judson (IL) Sat.
#25 Christopher Newport (6-4) def. Fisk 86-74 and hosts Oswego St. Sat.

Happy New Year! 

It's entirely  possible that I've lost track of the won-loss records, so I appreciate any and all corrections!