Top 25 talk

[fpc85]

I find it interesting that so many people would jump Teams over Amherst. Two questions:

What have they done to invalidate the #2 ranking?

Why are they number 2 if there are so many teams that are better than they are?

[Pat Coleman]

What has Amherst done to validate the No. 2 ranking?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I find it interesting that so many people would jump Teams over Amherst. Two questions:

What have they done to invalidate the #2 ranking?

Why are they number 2 if there are so many teams that are better than they are?

Check Titan Q's post of yesterday (he is one, though only one, of Pat's voters).  "What have they done to invalidate the #2 ranking?" - nothing, but, then again, what have they done to validate it?  "Why are they number 2 if there are so many teams that are better than they are?" - even by the end of the season, there are SO many teams playing so few games against each other that true confidence in any rankings are pretty much impossible; by THIS point of the season, it inevitably entails a fair amount of speculation on who would beat whom if only they would meet.  Obviously some (many) voters do not think 'so many teams' are better (they had 3 #1 votes, and overall finished 2nd!), but, given their schedule so far, I do not find it at all improper to wonder if the would still be 8-0 against several other teams' schedules.

My answer would be 'probably not', but that is just MY speculation.

[Pat Coleman]

Amherst
Nov 17   N   N   New York City Tech (1-9)   101-66   W   H
Nov 18   N   N   Thomas (2-6)   98-64   W   H
Nov 28   N   Y   Emmanuel (1-6)   45-84   W   A
Dec 01   N   Y   Western New England (5-4)   92-56   W   H
Dec 02   N   Y   Springfield (3-7)   91-52   W   H
Dec 07   N   Y   MIT (5-5)   47-79   W   A
Dec 09   N   Y   Brandeis (9-1)   84-74   W   H
Dec 12   N   Y   Worcester State (3-5)   42-70   W   A

UW-Stevens Point
Nov 18   N   Y   Carroll (4-5)   75-93   W   A
Nov 21   N   Y   Lawrence (6-3)   67-70   W   A
Nov 24   N   Y   Ripon (4-4)   90-76   W   H
Nov 29   Y   Y   UW-Oshkosh (7-2)   76-89   W   A
Dec 02   Y   Y   UW-River Falls (5-7)   73-81   W   A
Dec 06   Y   Y   UW-Whitewater (6-4)   75-73   W   H
Dec 09   Y   Y   UW-La Crosse (8-4)   67-64   W   H
Dec 11   N   Y   Edgewood (5-5)   69-47   W   H
Dec 13   N   N   Viterbo   49-75   W   A
Dec 28   N   N   Northern Michigan (D-II)   101-92   L   A
Dec 30   N   Y   Augustana (9-2)   71-68   W   H

Ohio Northern
Nov 17   N   N   DeSales (8-2)   57-74   W   Elizabethtown
Nov 18   N   N   Elizabethtown (4-5)   60-76   W   A
Nov 25   N   N   College of the Bahamas (non-Div III)   45-113   W   Northwood
Nov 26   N   N   Johnson & Wales (Fla.) (non-Div III)   60-74   W   Northwood
Dec 02   Y   Y   Marietta (4-7)   80-50   W   H
Dec 06   Y   Y   Heidelberg (6-4)   70-75   W   A
Dec 09   Y   Y   Baldwin-Wallace (8-3)   77-94   L   H
Dec 16   Y   Y   Mount Union (6-5)   51-64   W   A
Dec 19   N   Y   Wittenberg (9-2)   68-51   W   H
Dec 29   N   Y   Wooster (10-2)   84-91   W   A
Dec 30   N   N   UW-La Crosse (8-4)   73-70   W   Wooster

[fpc85]

They are # 2 in many voters minds......I guess that is a question for them.......I would think that having a team springboard over them and Amherst hasn't lost reinforces my thought that the poll (all polls btw) is nice to have but lacks merit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

They are # 2 in many voters minds......I guess that is a question for them.......I would think that having a team springboard over them and Amherst hasn't lost reinforces my thought that the poll (all polls btw) is nice to have but lacks merit.

You are confusing ratings with standings.  A team can very logically slide in ratings without losing if other teams just below them do some very impressive winning, just as a team could rise despite not playing if teams just above them lose.

[fpc85]

So I guess the "ratings" are unsettled. Doesn't reallly matter.....The best team is always the last team standing.

[Pat Coleman]

A ranking that merely moves a team up automatically for managing to not lose -- that would lack merit.

[fpc85]

I guess as much as ranking a team #2 for no reason.

[fpc85]

Seriously, I dont know if Amherst is #2 or not but how can a fan trust the rankings if the experts feel the way some of the post indicate. I don't follow any other team. You guys do....is this potential change typical at this time of the year?

[pg04]

They are actually number 2.  They are receiving 3 number 1 votes as well.  They seem to be strong in that position for now anyway, at least how I read it...

[Pat Coleman]

This change is possible any time No. 1 comes into play. It's a time at which every No. 1 candidate gets re-evaluated and singled out for extra scrutiny.

Ohio Northern, since the last poll, has beaten the standing No. 1 team on its own floor. Is that not worthy of consideration of a large jump? UW-Stevens Point played a Top 10 team and won.

When you look at the whole of Amherst's resume, it might not exactly stand up.

[Ralph Turner]

Amherst
Nov 17   N   N   New York City Tech (1-9)   101-66   W   H
Nov 18   N   N   Thomas (2-6)   98-64   W   H
Nov 28   N   Y   Emmanuel (1-6)   45-84   W   A
Dec 01   N   Y   Western New England (5-4)   92-56   W   H
Dec 02   N   Y   Springfield (3-7)   91-52   W   H
Dec 07   N   Y   MIT (5-5)   47-79   W   A
Dec 09   N   Y   Brandeis (9-1)   84-74   W   H
Dec 12   N   Y   Worcester State (3-5)   42-70   W   A

UW-Stevens Point
Nov 18   N   Y   Carroll (4-5)   75-93   W   A
Nov 21   N   Y   Lawrence (6-3)   67-70   W   A
Nov 24   N   Y   Ripon (4-4)   90-76   W   H
Nov 29   Y   Y   UW-Oshkosh (7-2)   76-89   W   A
Dec 02   Y   Y   UW-River Falls (5-7)   73-81   W   A
Dec 06   Y   Y   UW-Whitewater (6-4)   75-73   W   H
Dec 09   Y   Y   UW-La Crosse (8-4)   67-64   W   H
Dec 11   N   Y   Edgewood (5-5)   69-47   W   H
Dec 13   N   N   Viterbo   49-75   W   A
Dec 28   N   N   Northern Michigan (D-II)   101-92   L   A
Dec 30   N   Y   Augustana (9-2)   71-68   W   H

Ohio Northern
Nov 17   N   N   DeSales (8-2)   57-74   W   Elizabethtown
Nov 18   N   N   Elizabethtown (4-5)   60-76   W   A
Nov 25   N   N   College of the Bahamas (non-Div III)   45-113   W   Northwood
Nov 26   N   N   Johnson & Wales (Fla.) (non-Div III)   60-74   W   Northwood
Dec 02   Y   Y   Marietta (4-7)   80-50   W   H
Dec 06   Y   Y   Heidelberg (6-4)   70-75   W   A
Dec 09   Y   Y   Baldwin-Wallace (8-3)   77-94   L   H
Dec 16   Y   Y   Mount Union (6-5)   51-64   W   A
Dec 19   N   Y   Wittenberg (9-2)   68-51   W   H
Dec 29   N   Y   Wooster (10-2)   84-91   W   A
Dec 30   N   N   UW-La Crosse (8-4)   73-70   W   Wooster

Ah-hah!!! A glimpse into the D3Hoops.com database...

The first Y-N column is in-conference; the second is in-region!

[pg04]

Oops, didn't notice the date on the poll, I guess Amherst should probably expect a drop...or then again maybe they stay in the same position having Wooster Drop Below them and one of the other teams above them.... I guess we'll have to wait and see.  Will the newest poll be released sometime next week?

[fpc85]

Soooo #1 ranking is the only one that matters? When the #1 team falls we reassess challengers? And the team that is #2 isn't the fav even though they haven't lost? I understand your rationale. I hope you appreciate my view as well. That's why I love the tournament....none of this stuff matters. Just guys showing up and competing.