Top 25 talk

[Ralph Turner]

Which is why I wanted to wait until the Comets made this trip. 

Zack Pickelman's wrist must be well.

FG 6-7 3FG 2-2 FT 7-7 for 21 pts and 7 rebs in 32 minutes.

James Peters must be healthy, and Michael Dinkins looks to be part-way back for the Cowboys, too.

[woosterbooster]

I'd say the trip from Clinton to Alpine is sublime; it's the trip back that sucks! 

How about the trip from Clinton to Bush?  Somewhat more than sublime, but hopefully we'll get to make that trip back! 

[Ralph Turner]

I'd say the trip from Clinton to Alpine is sublime; it's the trip back that sucks! 

How about the trip from Clinton to Bush?  Somewhat more than sublime, but hopefully we'll get to make that trip back! 

Actually,  the "back" was "back to Bush"! 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

But it could go back again.  Man we really do have an oligarchy in this country, don't we?

[Ralph Turner]

Where to put this post?   

Please get the January 8, 2007 Sports Illustrated and read the Pete Maravich article.  What we see today is probably most attributable to Press and Pete Maravich.

I wish I could see a copy of the "Homework Drills".

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Can't you just find the article online and link to it?  We're a lazy generation, Ralph.

[Ralph Turner]

Can't you just find the article online and link to it?  We're a lazy generation, Ralph.

The si.com search does not give an online version of the story.

[diehardfan]

Re: the East Region

I had the chance to see my first E8 team up in Staten Island over the New Year's holiday weekend. In that game I proceeded to watch Nazareth dominate my Wheaton Thunder team for the first 30 minutes of the game.

At the half we were down 15. At the 12 minute mark we were down 18. At the 4:18 minute mark we were down 12. We didn't lead this game until there were 38 seconds left, and after their center had fouled out. If you look at the box score:

http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/stats/mwhe9.htm

You'll note that Nazareth shot as well as us, rebounded evenly with us, and their starters averaged over three steals each against us. Granted we didn't have Kent Raymond who has had to miss a couple of games due to injury, but Wheaton also has John Mohan back now, who was our second leading scorer (practically tied for first) last year. John Mohan may not be an All-American shoe-in like Kent, but he's a darn good basketball player.

Nazareth is a mere 4-4 on the year, but has overtime losses to both Rochester, and Wheaton, so could very well be 6-2 with a win over a Top 25 team that almost knocked down DI Northwestern. Obviously there's a pretty good chance they played up for us, but what I saw was definitely good basketball. I don't doubt that the best East Region teams deserve respect one bit.

Rochester still couldn't have made a basket if the hoop had been on the floor in those two games that I saw three years ago.

I tried, very unsuccessfully, to convince various people after the game that Nazareth wasn't half bad, and thoroughly failed. I've seen the last three (four?) final fours, and teams from 2/3 of the conferences in the nation, and my opinion still obviously doesn't mean much.

I doubt it's possible to convince people, FischerDynasty.... the way that east teams perpetually lay over and die the way your team did against Amherst last year, or the way Rochester did to Stevens Point two years ago, biases most analytical minds pretty heavily... and for arguably good reason.

On the other hand, Nazareth also has an incredibly young team. Two of the three best players for Nazareth in that game against us are freshman(!!!), and the guy who laid down 27 pts against us is only a junior, so maybe eventually some time in the next year and a half, they"ll play consistantly enough to earn the respect that I believe they deserve. Hmmm....

[Pat Coleman]

Based on one game where a 4-4 team may well have played out of its skull to hang with a Top 20 team that was missing its best player?

I try not to let personal observation of one game outweigh the preponderance of evidence if they are in obvious conflict.

[David Collinge]

Top 25 schedule and results, Jan. 1-7 (UPDATED with some Satuday scores):

#1 UW-Stevens Point (12-1) def. UW-Superior 101-45 and won at UW-Stout 80-50
#2 Ohio Northern (11-2) won at Muskingum 69-57 and lost to Capital 68-57
#3 Amherst (10-0) def. Babson 89-70 and won at Williams 64-45
#4 Wooster (11-2) def. Denison 96-67
#5 St. Thomas (10-1) won at Carleton 64-62 and won at Bethel 91-86 (2 OT)
#6 Whitworth (13-0) won at UC-Santa Cruz 89-44, won at Linfield 77-64, and won at George Fox 83-53
#7 Wittenberg (11-2) won at Kenyon 72-67 (OT) and def. Oberlin 71-41
#8 Virginia Wesleyan (10-2) won at Methodist 84-49, def. Emory & Henry 128-84, and hosts Guilford Sun.
#9 William Paterson (10-2) def. Tufts 79-57 and lost at Manhattanville 67-66
#10 Mississippi College (11-1) won at Sul Ross State 69-39 and won at Howard Payne 76-64
#11 Averett (9-3) lost to Guilford 74-69, lost to Richard Stockton 57-51 at York (Pa.), and lost to Hobart 73-66 at York (Pa.)
#12 Augustana (10-3) def. North Park 62-48 and lost at Elmhurst 82-71
#13 Puget Sound (10-1) won at Pacific Lutheran 108-96 and plays at Pacific Sat.
#14 Hope (10-2) won at Kalamazoo 87-55 and def. Olivet 99-70
#15 Bates (10-0) def. Elms 73-56 at Union and won at Union 81-66
#16 Wheaton (IL) (8-4) won at Baruch 75-66 and lost to North Central 52-47
#17 Carthage (9-3) def. Northland 84-74 and lost at Illinois Wesleyan 79-76
#18 UW-Oshkosh (12-2) def. UW-Platteville 79-58, def. Grinnell 123-105, and def. UW-Eau Claire 80-55
#19 Johns Hopkins (11-1) def. Washington Coll. 77-72
#20 NYU (10-1) lost at Carnegie Mellon 68-64 and plays at Rochester Sun.
#21 Lawrence (6-4) lost at Ripon 60-56
#22 Texas-Dallas (11-2) lost at Hardin-Simmons 75-56 and lost at McMurry 81-57
#23 Brandeis (10-2) won at Curry 81-73, lost at Rochester 83-65, and plays at Carnegie Mellon Sun.
#24 Washington U. (10-1) won at Webster 81-65 and won at Chicago 70-59
#25 UW-La Crosse (9-4) def. UW-Stout 57-42

Welcome to the wonderful world of conference play!

[gordonmann]

Rough night to be an upstart as three ranked teams are upset.

It looks like No. 23 Brandeis' first trip to the Top 25 will be short lived as they were pummeled by Rochester 83-65.  UR is now 8-2, 2-0 while Brandeis drops to 10-2, 0-1 UAA.  The Judges' star lost a little more luster last night when the best team they've defeated, Tufts, got thrashed by No. 9 William Paterson 79-57. 

No. 23 NYU has a reputation for starting the season strong against relatively weak opponents and then fading in UAA play.  The Violets didn't get off to a good start tonight, losing to Carnegie Mellon 68-64 in Pittsburgh.  NYU trailed 40-30 at the break.

No. 11 Averett dropped its second straight, falling to Richard Stockton 57-51 in the first night of a tournament at York (Pa.).  The Ospreys play in a tough conference but were just 7-5 coming into tonight.  Even with a win against Hobart, Averett may go from undefeated to unranked in less than seven days.

From the land of not counting your chickens before they hatch, we planned to broadcast tomorrow's York tournament championship, figuring it would give us the chance to see Averett in action.  Instead RSCNJ stepped on those proverbial chickens and we'll only see what's left of the Averett/Hobart game while we get ready for the York/RSCNJ broadcast.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph Turner:

>>The si.com search does not give an online version of the story.<<

From SI.com: "To get immediate access to this complete story you must be a SPORTS ILLUSTRATED magazine subscriber."

OxyBob

Thanks, Bob!  I figured that would be the case.  We get the SI at my office  for the reception area, so I am still read the "dead tree" version!   

It is a book excerpt, and recalls for us all that Pistol Pete did to change the course of basketball.

And then to have Dr J in the ABA and the red, white and blue ball...

[smedindy]

Oh, I re-read "Loose Balls" earlier this year, since I was in ABA country. I only wish I could have seen Les Selvage hoisting up 10 threes a game from 30 feet.

[woosterbooster]

Pluto's Loose Balls is still my favorite sports book, and I've read lots of them.  What a piece of work!  I pull it out about once a year, reread it cover to cover, and even though I nearly know the anecdotes by heart, I still laugh out loud.  Without looking, I can still remember one ABA owner's (Pat Boone?) comments when asked if he remembered Selvage: "Yeah, I remember him taking a lot of threes, I just don't remember a lot of them going in."

From the word go, in what is probably the introduction, where Doug Moe and Doctor J. recall, argue, and laugh about the first ever slam dunk contest, you just know it's going to be a hilarious read.  My favorite story is the one about the price on John Brisker's head and how Lenny Chappell KO's him during the opening jump to snag the $500.

If you haven't read this book, do so, you'll love it.

[gordonmann]

Good info on the basketball book.  I'll have to check that one out.