Top 25 talk

[David Collinge]

By my quick count, the top 25 went a pedestrian 13-9 today. 

Losers were #2 ONU, #9 WPU, #11 Averett, #12 Augustana, #13 UPS, #16 Wheaton, #17 Carthage, #21 Lawrence, and #22 Texas-Dallas

[frodotwo]

UWSP wins big and should increase their #1 votes

  1. UWSP
  2. Amherst
  3. Wooster
  4. St. Thomas
  5. Whitworth
  6. Ohio Northern
  7. Wittenberg
  8. Virginia Wesleyan
  9. Mississippi College
10. Puget Sound

Just an opinion.

You might want to reconsider #10, as homestanding Pacific upset #13 Puget Sound late Saturday, 77-71.

Well.....how about jumping Oshkosh in there over Hope and Bates. No disrepect to either of those teams, but their oponents don't appear to have been as tough as the Titans'.

[wooscotsfan]

IMO, the top 10 might look like this:

1.  UW Stevens Point
2.  Amherst
3.  Ohio Northern - they beat Wooster
4.  Wooster
5.  St. Thomas - 2 narrow wins, should not move up
6.  Whitworth
7.  Wittenberg
8.  Virginia Wesleyan
9.  Mississippi College
10. Hope

I suppose that ONU could drop further with their loss to Capital but the OAC is a very tough conference.  Baldwin-Wallace at 10-3, 5-1 OAC should be back in the Top 25 soon if they win a couple more.

[woosterbooster]

I can't buy Wittenberg in the number 7 slot.  Overtime wins at both Denison and Kenyon.  At Kenyon, only a buzzer-beating three-pointer saved them from defeat.  I really don't see this current version of the Tigers comparing at all to last year's team.  I think they're going to be in for real ballgames at OWU and Allegheny, and maybe even also at Earlham and Wabash.  Wooster will have no problem with them at Wooster (providing the Scots are healthy again).

By the way, am I the only one who gets this error message at every page of the Wittenberg athletic website?

The Nav/studio unlock code is not valid! -http://www.opencube.com/

I've been getting this since the beginning of the season.  Actually, longer, I think it was popping up back during baseball last year.  Somebody fix it, maybe?

[David Collinge]

By the way, am I the only one who gets this error message at every page of the Wittenberg athletic website?

The Nav/studio unlock code is not valid! -http://www.opencube.com/

I think maybe they're on to you in Springfield.  Don't open any suspicious-looking packages. 

[Error-free Witt Men's Basketball Page]

[woosterbooster]

Ok, some experimenting explained some things.  Your Wittenberg link was indeed error free.  Also, going directly to the Witt site was error free.  The problem lies, actually, when you go from the Wooster website, their schedule of games, and click on Wittenberg.  You then get that error message (at least I do) on the first, and every successive, Witt page that you go to.

So, it turns out that Wooster is on to me (probably Witt is also), and I'd better be keeping my doors locked from now on. 

[Titan Q]

Regarding the CCIW and Top 25 implications, it is very possible the CCIW has 6 Top 25 caliber teams.  I don't realistically think we will see 6 in the poll at any point, but there legitimately may be 6 that are good enough.


#12 Augustana (10-3) -- The Vikes were drilled last night at Elmhurst.  When Augie got to #9, I said they were way too high and at #12, and I still think they're too high.  That being said, they have a nice win over a very good Wash U team and lost by just 3 at #1 UW-Stevens Point.  What that means about the Pointers I have no idea as I haven't seen them, but Augie is a 15-20 type team.

#16 Wheaton (8-4) -- The Thunder lost at home last night to preseason CCIW favorite North Central.  Wheaton has the nice wins over Hope and Calvin (both neutral courts).  Losses are to #6 Whitworth, Chicago, Big Ten Northwestern by a basket, and now NCC.  Wheaton belongs in the Top 25, but probably a bit lower that #16.

#17 Carthage (9-3) -- Lost at Illinois Wesleyan last night by 3 in a game that was close from start to finish.  I finally got to see the Red Men and they impressed the heck out of me.  To me, they are without question a Top 25 team.  They have nice wins over Calvin, Hope, and Lawrence.  After an early loss to Carroll, their only two losses are to NCAA Division II Lewis (coached by former IWU head man Scott Trost), and at IWU.  They're talented, very balanced, and well coached.  Their head coach has two Division III national championships (with North Park) and a 2002 trip to the Final Four with Carthage.

(RV) Elmhurst (11-1) -- Dominated #12 Augustana at home last night (led by 14 at the half and by as many as 23 in the 2nd half).  The Bluejays also have wins over #18 UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater.  Elmhurst probably should be the highest ranked CCIW team, all things considered.  The Bluejays are huge in the low post with 6-9/250 Brent Ruch and 6-10/235 Nick Michael.  Sophomore 2-guard Ryan Burks is averaging 16.6 ppg and senior point-guard Brian Lee is steady.

(RV) North Central (9-3) -- Won at #16 Wheaton last night.  NCC had a pretty ugly non-conference season, but they may be ready to play now.  The Cardinals lost their starting backcourt from last year's CCIW Pool A team and they've tried a number of different combinations.  They've finally settled on their two talented freshman and that duo scored 16 pts last night in their first career CCIW game (which was on the road), making 4 of 6 3's.  NCC has one of the best frontcourts in Division III.

(RV) Illinois Wesleyan (8-4) -- The Titans defeated #17 Carthage last night and looked very good in doing it.  IWU is finally becoming more than just Zach Freeman as the rest of the cast continues to emerge.  Forward Darius Gant led the Titans in scoring last night with 21 and forward Andrew Freeman added 17.  I haven't voted for IWU yet this season in the poll but for the first time this year, I'm starting to look closely at it.  IWU is dead even with Carthage, that I'm sure of.  The Carthage win was IWU's best since the early win at UW-Whitewater.


Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic told me after the game that he didn't see any separatiion at all between these 6 teams.  I haven't seen all of them, but I'd certainly agree that IWU, Carthage, Elmhurst, and Augustana - the teams I've seen - are very even.   

Where these 6 stack up nationally, I am really not sure I guess.  Some of the non-conference scores suggest these teams can play with anyone, but when I watch them play I don't see national championship contenders...but maybe this is a bit of a down year where there isn't much separation between D3hoops.com #5 and #20??  I don't know.

[David Collinge]

Final top 25 results for the week are in and posted above.  Seven of the top 8 teams went unscathed, but of the teams ranked #9-#25, ten of them lost, and three of those lost multiple times.  It should be an interesting poll on Tuesday; with all this turmoil, I wouldn't be too surprised if the new poll actually resembles the old poll to a large degree.  There should be some dropouts (like Averett, Lawrence, Brandeis) and some newcomers (Elmhurst, at least, maybe Oxy, Aurora, WPI), but the biggest change may just be the increasing gap between #9 and #10.

My prediction of the top 10:
1. UW-SP
2. Amherst
3. ONU
4. Wooster...can't justify sliding ONU behind the Scots
5. Whitworth
6. UST...two more close games erases narrow margin over Pirates
7. Va. Wesleyan...very impressive in smoking previously unbeaten Guilford today
8. Wittenberg
9. Mississippi College...solid road trip to West Texas
10. WPU...Hope can't close 177-point gap, despite WPU loss to Manhattanville

[goscots]

Even though ONU has beaten Wooster and Witt, their two double digit home losses should drop them out of the top five. I think Virgina Wesleyan in under rated and the CCIW needs to have a representative. My list will not be close to what comes out Tuesday but it is my opinion:

1) UW - Stevens Point
2) Amherst
3) Wooster
4) Whitworth
5) Virginia Wesleyan
6) ONU
7) St. Thomas -  Isaac Rosefelt has been back for a few games but they are still struggling to win against average competition
8) Mississippi College - they have played quite a number of sub-.500 teams so even convincing wins are difficult to guage
9) Wittenberg - too many OT's with weak NCAC teams
10) Elmhurst - I know no one climbs this much but they seems to have the strongest case from the CCIW
10) Hope - 8 wins in a row with no loses outside of CCIW teams. I think they might run the table in the MIAA

[Titan Q]

Even though ONU has beaten Wooster and Witt, their two double digit home losses should drop them out of the top five. I think Virgina Wesleyan in under rated and the CCIW needs to have a representative.

The CCIW is one of the top 2 conferences again this year (and as posted above there may be 6 poll-worthy teams), but I do not think that automatically means it should have a team in the top 10.  I don't think any one CCIW team has earned that distinction yet. 

CCIW teams are going to beat each other up pretty badly in league play.  We had the 3 "upsets" last night (in quotes as I do not think Elmhurst winning at home over Augustana was an upset at all, or IWU winning at home vs Carthage).  This Wednesday Augustana travels to Wheaton and Elmhurst to Carthage.  There will be games like this every Wednesday and Saturday through February.

[Titan Q]

I have serious reservations about Hope in the Top 10 at this point.  Wins are:

Cornerstone
Calvin
Grace Bible
Goshen
Aquinas
Purdue-North Central
Trinity Christian
Rochester
Kalamazoo
Olivet

Hope lost to the two best Division III teams they've played, Carthage and Wheaton of the CCIW (NAIA II Cornerstone is good I'm sure).  What signature D3 wins do the Flying Dutchmen have that make them a Top 10 candidate?

If Hope is being discussed as a Top 10 team, I guess I will start rethinking my position that the CCIW doesn't have a Top 10 team. 

[pg04]

Looking at the bottom of the poll, any chance that Brockport State will start Receiving some votes?  They are 8-1 having beaten St. John Fisher by 11 at Fisher, beat Hamilton by 19 on Friday, then blew out previously undefeated St. Lawrence by 30, 102-72 today.  Does any of this merit some consideration, considering the weakness of the east?

[David Collinge]

I have serious reservations about Hope in the Top 10 at this point.  Wins are:

Cornerstone
Calvin
Grace Bible
Goshen
Aquinas
Purdue-North Central
Trinity Christian
Rochester
Kalamazoo
Olivet

Hope lost to the two best Division III teams they've played, Carthage and Wheaton of the CCIW (NAIA II Cornerstone is good I'm sure).  What signature D3 wins do the Flying Dutchmen have that make them a Top 10 candidate?

If Hope is being discussed as a Top 10 team, I guess I will start rethinking my position that the CCIW doesn't have a Top 10 team. 

Before anyone not named diehardfan has an apoplectic seizure caused by the inclusion of Rochester in that murderer's row, that's Rochester (MI).

[Ralph Turner]

Even though ONU has beaten Wooster and Witt, their two double digit home losses should drop them out of the top five. I think Virgina Wesleyan in under rated and the CCIW needs to have a representative. My list will not be close to what comes out Tuesday but it is my opinion:

1) UW - Stevens Point
2) Amherst
3) Wooster
4) Whitworth
5) Virginia Wesleyan
6) ONU
7) St. Thomas -  Isaac Rosefelt has been back for a few games but they are still struggling to win against average competition
8 ) Mississippi College - they have played quite a number of sub-.500 teams so even convincing wins are difficult to guage
9) Wittenberg - too many OT's with weak NCAC teams
10) Elmhurst - I know no one climbs this much but they seems to have the strongest case from the CCIW
10) Hope - 8 wins in a row with no loses outside of CCIW teams. I think they might run the table in the MIAA

Goscots,

I am cautiously optimistic about our arch-rival MissColl.  If McMurry cannot knock them out in the conference tourney, then I want MissColl finally to do it this year.

Let me refresh your memory about the Choctaws.

You think that VWC is under-rated.  The Marlins lost a tough one to UMHB and then took HSU to OT.  Well, Miss College beat UMHB by 28.  After a tough road trip to McMurry/HSU where you travel 600 miles by bus and then play your arch-rival McMurry on Thursday night in an emotionally charged game,  you spend 2 nights in the motel and then beat HSU, the pre-season ASC-West pick, on Saturday afternoon.  There are very few conferences (maybe the UAA, the SCAC and NWC) that have road trips like the ASC.

Miss College goes to Westmont CA and beats Johns Hopkins 75-51!  That is a Liberty League monkey-stomp!  They then defeat Westmont!  We D3 fans should learn that a win over Westmont is solid evidence that the team is solid.

Miss College handled the Sul Ross State/ Howard Payne trip (1700 miles if they didn't fly the first 750 miles from Clinton to Midland TX) very well.  That proved their battle-toughness to me.

I say that they have made their case.  My reluctance to rate them higher is that they have never defeated a Great Lakes region team in the Playoffs.  That is why I don't rate them higher.  This year may be different.  Coach Mike Jones has gone back to the bench.  He and Coach Lofton are an incredible pair.  I hope that MissColl breaks thru this year, if they get past McMurry in the conference tourney.  Timothy Broomfield, their 6'8" G/F, is having a great year.  He may be the difference.

MissCollege catches UT-Dallas in Clinton this weekend.  I think that they take 'em by double-digits.

[fpc85]

Amherst continues to win...despite missing starting 3 man all game and injuries to the 2 man and 5 man... just win baby.