Top 25 talk

[Ralph Turner]

Amherst continues to win...despite missing starting 3 man all game and injuries to the 2 man and 5 man... just win baby.

+1!
Thanks for the info, fpc85!

[Greek Tragedy]

Great work on the Top 25 results, Dave!

Titan Q, nice job on the CCIW review of things!

[diehardfan]

I have serious reservations about Hope in the Top 10 at this point.  Wins are:

Cornerstone
Calvin
Grace Bible
Goshen
Aquinas
Purdue-North Central
Trinity Christian
Rochester
Kalamazoo
Olivet

Hope lost to the two best Division III teams they've played, Carthage and Wheaton of the CCIW (NAIA II Cornerstone is good I'm sure).  What signature D3 wins do the Flying Dutchmen have that make them a Top 10 candidate?

If Hope is being discussed as a Top 10 team, I guess I will start rethinking my position that the CCIW doesn't have a Top 10 team. 

Before anyone not named diehardfan has an apoplectic seizure caused by the inclusion of Rochester in that murderer's row, that's Rochester (MI).

The locals in Upstate NY refer to UAA's the University of Rochester as the U of R. As the daughter of a Rochester, NY native, and a former scholarship recipiant to the U of R (and someone who was being hit on by a Rochester, MN native as a frosh at Wheaton for that matter), I am aware of the difference, of course. Though I do think the idea of anyone beside me including them on a list of bad schools funny!!! I will never forget the email I got from Gabe Perez, former Rochester standout, which contained playful jabs at my continuous ribbing of the NY school....

I don't ever think of the U of R first when people say "Rochester" I always have to consciously think about it when I type or read Rochester who they mean.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Must be a sign of age - when someone says 'Rochester', my first thought is "Coming, Mr. Benny."

[Pat Coleman]

My first thought on "U of R" is Redlands. That used to be the University of Redlands' domain name.

[diehardfan]

I really don't like the idea of Witt or Hope being in the top 10, though I will probably not mind Hope being there at some point later this season.

As far as the CCIW is concerned... I like the idea of Elmhurst being in the Top 10... between Ruch, Michael, Burks, Lee and Bacon... this is one seriously talent loaded team... there's no way any team can stop all their weapons. I'm really not sure NCC deserves to be in the Top 25, and for the same reason, I don't think Wheaton currently deserves their Top 25 spot at this moment either (unless the voters are still determined to rank Hope in the top 10, it's sorta hard to leave Wheaton out of the top 25 all together, and even harder to leave Carthage off a high ranking despite their loss to IWU. I fully believe that Carthage and Elmhurst are the top CCIW contenders this year... I just think the Titan players finally remember that they really REALLY aren't supposed to lose at the Shirk... it just isn't done.)

I think Oxy deserves a Top 25 spot. I really didn't think they were that much worse than St. Thomas when I saw the two schools play at all. The game was neck and neck right to the final seconds until Oxy started to foul and St. Thomas couldn't miss a ft. Oxy still hasn't lost to a d3 opponents aside from them. I'm definitely in favor of them finding at least the bottom of the Top 25 this week... but I've felt that way all season and it hasn't happened yet... maybe because CMS is at least as solid of a contender for the SCIAC crown? And there probably isn't two Top 25 SCIAC teams... St. Thomas is definitely a good team despite their Preseason AA being a little down right now... Schnettler is amazing. But 6-7 might be a little high, and I'm a little wary about them being in the Top 10 if Oxy isn't in the poll at all...

My question is... is it possible that Wash U is going to deserve a Top 10 spot if they keeping winning in the UAA? Their only regular season loss was at Augustana by two. I know they're only 24 right now, but with all the teams losing that did, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't too far out of the Top 10 this week...

and now it's time for bed.

[AndOne]

As far as the CCIW is concerned... I like the idea of Elmhurst being in the Top 10... between Ruch, Michael, Burks, Lee and Bacon... this is one seriously talent loaded team... there's no way any team can stop all their weapons. I'm really not sure NCC deserves to be in the Top 25

NC is about 45th in the current poll. They barely made it in the "Others Receiving Votes" listing.

[Gregory Sager]

(RV) Elmhurst (11-1) -- Dominated #12 Augustana at home last night (led by 14 at the half and by as many as 23 in the 2nd half).  The Bluejays also have wins over #18 UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater.  Elmhurst probably should be the highest ranked CCIW team, all things considered.  The Bluejays are huge in the low post with 6-9/250 Brent Ruch and 6-10/235 Nick Michael.  Sophomore 2-guard Ryan Burks is averaging 16.6 ppg and senior point-guard Brian Lee is steady.

Burks is Elmhurst's small forward, not the shooting guard. Senior role player Mike Sayre plays the two spot for the Bluejays, with Pat Bacon, Matt Ryder, and occasionally Chris Childs spelling him and Bacon doubling as PG Brian Lee's backup.

I think it's quite possible that Burks would've been in the backcourt for Elmhurst this year if Robert Strzemp was healthy, given the early indication that Bluejays coach Mark Scherer wanted to play Strzemp at small forward (he's actually more of an undersized PF). However, I think Burks would have trouble guarding some of the quicker twos in the CCIW (e.g., Carthage's Trey Bowens, NPU's Jason Gordon, the Harrington/Brock combo from Millikin, etc.). And Wheaton's Kent Raymond would carve him up. The fact that Strzemp's injury has forced Scherer to work with a somewhat smaller perimeter rotation has, in my opinion, been a blessing in disguise for the Bluejays from a defensive standpoint. Burks can handle guarding most CCIW small forwards; at 6'4, 185 he's big enough and quick enough to do so.

[Gregory Sager]

The locals in Upstate NY refer to UAA's the University of Rochester as the U of R. As the daughter of a Rochester, NY native, and a former scholarship recipiant to the U of R (and someone who was being hit on by a Rochester, MN native as a frosh at Wheaton for that matter),

Yes, but we've previously established that you've never eaten a garbage plate ... and that's a serious hole in your Kodak City bona-fides.

[gordonmann]

Mmm...garbage plate.  Good stuff.  Well, not healthwise -- but you know what I mean.

To answer the question posed a few posts back, yes, I think Brockport State will garner a few votes.  The loss to Potsdam State is questionable but that's the second night of a rough road trip.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Top 25 this week:

1.   UWSP - beat Superior and Stout, both by big margins.
2.   ONU - beat MUskingum, lost to Capital
3.   Amherst - beat Babson and Williams easily
4.   Wooster - beat Denison
5.   St. Thomas - barely beat Carlton and Bethel (2OT)
6.   Whitworth - beat Linfield, UC-Santa Cruz and George Fox, all pretty easily
7.   Wittenberg - took out Kenyon (OT) and Oberlin
8.   VA Wesleyan - beat Methodist, E&H and Guilford
9.   WPU - beat Tufts, lost to Manhattanville
10. MS College - beat Sul Ros State and Howard Payne both on the road
11. Averett - lost to Guilford, loss to Stockton, loss to Hobart
12. Augustana - beat North Park, lost to Elmhurst
13. UPS - beat Pac Lutheran, lost to Pacific
14. Hope - beat Kalamazoo and Olivet
15. Bates - beat Elms and Union easily
16. Wheaton - beat Baruch, lost to NCC
17. Carthage - beat Northland, lost to IWU
18. Oshkosh - beat Platteville, Grinnell and Eau Claire
19. Hopkins - beat Washington College
20. NYU - lost to Mellon, beat Rochester
21. Lawrence - lost at Ripon
22. TX-Dallas - lost at Hardin-Simmons, lost at McMurry
23. Brandies - lost at Rochester, lost at Mellon
24. WASHU - beat Webster and Chicago
25. LaCrosse - beat Stout

[pg04]

Mmm...garbage plate.  Good stuff.  Well, not healthwise -- but you know what I mean.

To answer the question posed a few posts back, yes, I think Brockport State will garner a few votes.  The loss to Potsdam State is questionable but that's the second night of a rough road trip.

Plus I think that loss may have been a wake up call for them, they have played lights out since....

And stop making me think about garbage plates... I miss them down here in the FLA!

[ScotsFan]

I can't buy Wittenberg in the number 7 slot.  Overtime wins at both Denison and Kenyon.  At Kenyon, only a buzzer-beating three-pointer saved them from defeat.  I really don't see this current version of the Tigers comparing at all to last year's team.  I think they're going to be in for real ballgames at OWU and Allegheny, and maybe even also at Earlham and Wabash.  Wooster will have no problem with them at Wooster (providing the Scots are healthy again).

I have been questioning Witt in the Top 10 all season long.  While they did give the Scots all they could handle in Springfield, I look at that as Wittenberg turning it up a notch as soon as they see the Black and Old Gold unis across the gym.  They didn't come close to beating ONU.  They needed 3 OT's to beat a bad Denison squad and they needed an NBA range prayer at the buzzer to force OT and pull out the eventual win over Kenyon.  I just think Top 10 is a bit overrated for Witt.

As for the ONU-Wooster debate, I would probably side on keeping Wooster at #4 for now, although the gap would have to be pretty close given the fact that ONU now has lost twice at home by double digits.  While I wouldn't consider the B-W loss as a terrible loss, it's hard to overlook the fact that they lost that game by 18.  And from what I've heard about Capital, losing at home by 11 to the Crusaders is pretty bad IMHO.  Maybe we should just call it a tie for 3rd this week between Wooster and ONU?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

See I've had trouble with how high Wittenberg has been ranked the last few years, but I've come to the conclusion that they are just grinders.  They have mediocre results and then face a strong team and continue to grind out wins.  I think its more about the playing style than anything.  That's the conclusion I've come to anyway.

[balls a dunkin]

Even though ONU has beaten Wooster and Witt, their two double digit home losses should drop them out of the top five. I think Virgina Wesleyan in under rated and the CCIW needs to have a representative. My list will not be close to what comes out Tuesday but it is my opinion:

1) UW - Stevens Point
2) Amherst
3) Wooster
4) Whitworth
5) Virginia Wesleyan
6) ONU
7) St. Thomas -  Isaac Rosefelt has been back for a few games but they are still struggling to win against average competition
8 ) Mississippi College - they have played quite a number of sub-.500 teams so even convincing wins are difficult to guage
9) Wittenberg - too many OT's with weak NCAC teams
10) Elmhurst - I know no one climbs this much but they seems to have the strongest case from the CCIW
10) Hope - 8 wins in a row with no loses outside of CCIW teams. I think they might run the table in the MIAA

Goscots,

I am cautiously optimistic about our arch-rival MissColl.  If McMurry cannot knock them out in the conference tourney, then I want MissColl finally to do it this year.

Let me refresh your memory about the Choctaws.

You think that VWC is under-rated.  The Marlins lost a tough one to UMHB and then took HSU to OT.  Well, Miss College beat UMHB by 28.  After a tough road trip to McMurry/HSU where you travel 600 miles by bus and then play your arch-rival McMurry on Thursday night in an emotionally charged game,  you spend 2 nights in the motel and then beat HSU, the pre-season ASC-West pick, on Saturday afternoon.  There are very few conferences (maybe the UAA, the SCAC and NWC) that have road trips like the ASC.

Miss College goes to Westmont CA and beats Johns Hopkins 75-51!  That is a Liberty League monkey-stomp!  They then defeat Westmont!  We D3 fans should learn that a win over Westmont is solid evidence that the team is solid.

Miss College handled the Sul Ross State/ Howard Payne trip (1700 miles if they didn't fly the first 750 miles from Clinton to Midland TX) very well.  That proved their battle-toughness to me.

I say that they have made their case.  My reluctance to rate them higher is that they have never defeated a Great Lakes region team in the Playoffs.  That is why I don't rate them higher.  This year may be different.  Coach Mike Jones has gone back to the bench.  He and Coach Lofton are an incredible pair.  I hope that MissColl breaks thru this year, if they get past McMurry in the conference tourney.  Timothy Broomfield, their 6'8" G/F, is having a great year.  He may be the difference.

MissCollege catches UT-Dallas in Clinton this weekend.  I think that they take 'em by double-digits.

It's pretty hard for a team to play alot of the top ranked teams when we only have 4 nonconference games, but how is it hard to guage a big win, I don't understand?  I guess to get the respect we deserve we are going to have to make a deeper run in the tourny. 
Thanks for the props anyway, Ralph.  That's pretty classy, even from a McM fan 

GO CHOCS   
GO ASC