Top 25 talk

[AndOne]

North Central is a good team, but no where near the top 25.

I still don't know how a team "looses" to someone! 

Its easy---You just hold down the 'o' a little too long.   

[hope1]

hope beat alma tonight       89 to 49 tonight   

[Mr. Ypsi]

North Central is a good team, but no where near the top 25.

'...no where near...' might be an overstatement.  For their full season's work, I couldn't vote them in the top 25 (though 30-35, probably).  But if I were a betting man, right now I'd take them over a majority of top 25 teams.  Their front-court was always among the best in the country, but they had tremendous problems at guard.  Either they have solved the problem or learned to work around it.  I doubt that anyone in the CCIW tourney is eager to face them, and IF they should win the AQ (their C chances are nil), I doubt there is anyone anywhere who wouldn't prefer to meet almost anyone else!

[Titan Q]

North Central is a good team, but no where near the top 25.

North Central is as good as several teams in the top 25 and others receiving votes.  The CCIW preseason favorite is playing well right now.

I saw NCC last night, #9 Elmhurst tonight, and #14 Augustana one week ago...there isn't much separation there at all.  Maybe none at all -- and the results the last week demonstrate that (NCC won @ Augie and over Elmhurst convincingly).  And on a neutral court, a game between NCC and #11 Chicago would be a pick 'em.  There is no way there is as much separation between Chicago and NCC as the poll would indicate.  Wheaton is the top team "receiving votes" -- NCC swept Wheaton this year.

North Central struggled through January and it has been a pretty tough season for them as they've tried to find a decent backcourt to replace the two seniors they lost, but they're a good team right now.  NCC's frontcourt of 6-5 Daniel Walton (17.8 ppg, 9.3 rpg), 6-6 Anthony Simmons (15.1 ppg, 6.3 rpg), and 6-7 Adam Krumtinger (8.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg) is about as good of a trio around the basket as you will find in Division III this year.

[David Collinge]

Top 25 At-a-Glance, Week of Feb. 19-25 (UPDATED with Thursday scores and relevant tournament results as available)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (23-2) def. UW-Eau Claire 89-55 (WIAC quarterfinal); hosts UW-Whitewater Thu. (WIAC semifinal), finals Sat.
#   2   Virginia Wesleyan (23-3) def. Washington & Lee 82-48 (ODAC qtr.); plays Hampden-Sydney Sat. (ODAC semifinal), finals Sun (all games at Salem, VA)
#   3   Amherst (24-1) hosts Colby Sat. (NESCAC semifinal); finals Sun.
#   4   Wooster (23-3) def. Earlham 94-76 (NCAC quarterfinal); hosts Wabash Fri. (NCAC semifinal), finals Sat.
#   5   Mississippi College (22-2) hosts Concordia-Austin Fri. (ASC quarterfinal); semifinals Sat., finals Sun.
#   6   St. Thomas (23-3) def. St. Olaf 77-61 (MIAC semifinal); hosts St. John's Sat (MIAC final)
#   7   UW-Oshkosh (21-5) def. UW-River Falls 83-65 (WIAC quarterfinal); plays at #18 UW-Stout Thu. (WIAC semifinal), finals Sat.
#   8   Hope (22-3) def. Alma 89-49 (MIAA quarterfinal); hosts Adrian Fri. (MIAA semifinal), finals Sat.
#   9   Augustana (20-5) hosts North Central Fri. (CCIW semifinal); finals Sat.
#   10   Wittenberg (22-4) def. Hiram 72-49 (NCAC quarterfinal); plays Ohio Wesleyan Fri. at Wooster, OH (NCAC semifinal), finals Sat.
#   11   Chicago (20-4) plays at #12 Washington U. Sat.
#   12   Washington U. (19-4) hosts #11 Chicago Sat.
#   13   Worcester Polytech (21-2) hosts TBD Sat. (NEWMAC semifinal); finals Sun.
#   14   Elmhurst (20-5) won at Millikin 79-63 and plays Wheaton (IL) Fri. at Rock Island, IL (CCIW semifinal); finals Sat.
#   15   Aurora (23-2) hosts Lakeland Fri. (NATHCON semifinal); finals Sat.
#   16   Whitworth (22-3) hosts Lewis & Clark Sat. (NWC championship)
#   17   Guilford (21-4) lost to Bridgewater (VA) 88-78 at Salem, VA (ODAC quarterfinal)
#   18   UW-La Crosse (18-7) def. UW-Stout 63-58 (WIAC quarterfinal); hosts UW-Oshkosh Thu. (WIAC semifinal), finals Sat.
#   19   Occidental (18-5) def. La Verne 85-54 and plays at Whittier Thu.
#   20   Trinity (CT) (21-3) plays Williams Sat. at Amherst (NESCAC semifinal); finals Sun.
#   21   NYU (19-5) hosts Brandeis Sat.
#   22   DePauw (21-4) plays Sewanee Fri. at Memphis (SCAC qtr.); semifinals Sat., finals Sun.
#   23   Puget Sound (18-7) lost at Lewis & Clark 66-60 (NWC semifinal)
#   24   Ohio Northern (19-7) lost to Otterbein 52-51 (OAC quarterfinals)
#   25   Mary Hardin-Baylor (21-4) plays Louisiana Coll. Fri. in Clinton, MS (ASC qtr.); semis Sat., finals Sun.

[Gregory Sager]

North Central is a good team, but no where near the top 25.

North Central is as good as several teams in the top 25 and others receiving votes.  The CCIW preseason favorite is playing well right now.

I saw NCC last night, #9 Elmhurst tonight, and #14 Augustana one week ago...there isn't much separation there at all.  Maybe none at all -- and the results the last week demonstrate that (NCC won @ Augie and over Elmhurst convincingly).  And on a neutral court, a game between NCC and #11 Chicago would be a pick 'em.  There is no way there is as much separation between Chicago and NCC as the poll would indicate.  Wheaton is the top team "receiving votes" -- NCC swept Wheaton this year.

North Central struggled through January and it has been a pretty tough season for them as they've tried to find a decent backcourt to replace the two seniors they lost, but they're a good team right now.  NCC's frontcourt of 6-5 Daniel Walton (17.8 ppg, 9.3 rpg), 6-6 Anthony Simmons (15.1 ppg, 6.3 rpg), and 6-7 Adam Krumtinger (8.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg) is about as good of a trio around the basket as you will find in Division III this year.

Plus, NCC has finally found a guard who can keep defenses honest in freshman Brandon Smith (13.0 ppg, .458 trey%).

[smedindy]

That's now. taking the whole body of work into account, which I do, I have them at #67. That's no where near the top 25. It's great to peak at the right time, but the season is the season.

[Titan Q]

That's now. taking the whole body of work into account, which I do, I have them at #67. That's no where near the top 25. It's great to peak at the right time, but the season is the season.

And that is the biggest disadvantage of a computer ranking.  In a poll that is voted on, like the D3hoops.com Top 25, you can factor in "human elements."  Maybe a key injury hurt a team for a long stretch (like the injury preseason All-American Anthony Simmons played through)...or maybe a team struggled to sort out its personnel after a couple key losses to graduation...maybe it is the first year under a new coach...or maybe a team just didn't play well at the beginning of the season but turns it on late.  In your ranking (and Massey, etc), a team like North Central is stuck with its losses, no matter how well they are playing now...at least the D3hoops.com voters can look at "human elements", like recent play, and factor that in. 

I'm not suggesting that North Central should be rated in the D3hoops.com poll, but I know that Pat's voters would have them a lot higher than #67 right now. 

[smedindy]

Actually, when I vote, as a human (mind you in the posters poll) I also take the entire body of work into account. A loss in January is still a loss in my eyes.

[Titan Q]

Actually, when I vote, as a human (mind you in the posters poll) I also take the entire body of work into account. A loss in January is still a loss in my eyes.

As do I, but there are also "human elements" I factor in.  For example, North Central lost to Lincoln on December 20 without preseason All-American Anthony Simmons.  His injury seemed to really impact him for a long stretch this season after his return (he wasn't the same player he was last year), but the last 5-6 games he has been outstanding in wins vs some of the top teams in the country.

St. Thomas lost to UW-La Crosse without Isaac Rosefelt...Whitworth has played a good chunk of the NWC season without leading scorer James Jones...Calvin wins at Hope and Wittenberg at Wooster in rivalry games so intense that you really can't look at like any other game.  These are things I can factor in and consider as I vote in the D3hoops.com poll...a computer poll has no way to do that.  And since the real purpose of a poll is to give an accurate reflection of the top teams in the country at that given moment - not simply to reward or penalize teams for past performance - I prefer the ones that factor in the human element.

[smedindy]

I disagree. The real purpose of a poll is to recognize the teams that have played well over the long haul - the season to date counting all games - not just the last week or month. It should be a reflection on the total body of work. Injuries are a part of it, but they're a part of it for everyone and if a team has injuries then that has to factor into their body of work.

[Gray Fox]

I disagree. The real purpose of a poll is to recognize the teams that have played well over the long haul - the season to date counting all games - not just the last week or month. It should be a reflection on the total body of work. Injuries are a part of it, but they're a part of it for everyone and if a team has injuries then that has to factor into their body of work.

The exact reason I don't like most conference tournaments.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I disagree. The real purpose of a poll is to recognize the teams that have played well over the long haul - the season to date counting all games - not just the last week or month. It should be a reflection on the total body of work. Injuries are a part of it, but they're a part of it for everyone and if a team has injuries then that has to factor into their body of work.

The exact reason I don't like most conference tournaments.

Do you not like the NCAA Tournament to decide the #1 team in the nation either? 

[smedindy]

The NCAA tourney determines the CHAMPION, not necessarily the best team in the nation over the long haul. The nature of the knockout elimination makes it so that sometimes the best team gets bounced.

I hate conference tourneys, too. Every conference should play a double round robin (yes the ASC has some issues with that, but hey) and the winner comes from that grind.

Ah, well...

[sac]

Bridgewater 88 #17 Guilford 79

Upset in the ODAC,  Guilford now joins the bubble.....I think