Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Does Alvernia have any shot next year at being considered in the top 25?

Sure.

If you can tell me who they're playing next year, I can give you a better answer.

Doesn't that require someone at Alvernia knowing who they're playing next year?

[David Collinge]

Top 25 Tournament Glance (UPDATED throough the Sweet Sixteen games)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (26-3) received a bye; def. St. John's (21-7) 93-76; lost to #8 Washington U. 78-66; season complete
#   2   Wooster (28-3) def. Transylvania 92-66; def. #23 Centre 73-56; def. #25 John Carroll 83-73 at St. John Fisher; plays Brockport St. (26-5) Sat. at St. John Fisher
#   3   Mississippi College (27-3) def. #15 Occidental 68-51; def. Maryville (TN) 76-56; lostat #4 Virginia Wesleyan 81-55; season complete
#   4   Virginia Wesleyan (26-4) def. Averett 63-60; def. Hampden-Sydney 61-51; def. #3 Miss. College 81-55; hosts #19 Guilford (24-4) Sat.
#   5   St. Thomas (24-4) received a bye; lost to Carroll 86-80; season complete
#   6   Amherst (27-2) received a bye; def. Widener 87-70; def. Stevens 97-74; hosts #21 Rhode Island Coll. (27-3) Sat.
#   7   Augustana (22-6) lost to Carroll in NCAA 1st round; season complete
#   8   Washington U. (23-4) def. Fontbonne 77-58; def. #11 Whitworth 63-61; won at #1 UW-Stevens Point 78-66; plays #10 Hope (26-4) Sat. at UW-Stevens Point
#   9   UW-Oshkosh (21-6) season complete
#   10   Hope (26-4) def. #12 Chicago 76-54 at Aurora; def. Calvin 80-64 at Aurora; def. Carroll 89-77 at UW-Stevens Point; plays #8 Washington U. (23-4) Sat. at UW-Stevens Point
#   11   Whitworth (24-4) def. DePauw 62-59 (OT) at Washington U.; lost at #8 Wash. U. 63-61; season complete
#   12   Chicago (20-6) lost to #10 Hope 76-54 at Aurora; season complete
#   13   Elmhurst (21-6) season complete
#   14   Aurora (25-3) lost to Calvin 69-68; season complete
#   15   Occidental (19-6) lost at #3 Mississippi College 68-51; season complete
#   16   UW-La Crosse (19-8) season complete
#   17   Wittenberg (22-5) season complete
#   18   Worcester Polytech (22-4) lost to Stevens 68-57 at Ramapo; season complete
#   19   Guilford (24-4) def. Manhattanville 101-81 at Johns Hopkins; won at Johns Hopkins 80-73; def. Lincoln 129-128 (3 OT) at Virginia Wesleyan; plays at #4 Virginia Wesleyan (26-4) Sat.
#   20   Trinity (CT) (21-5) lost to Brandeis 77-70 (OT) at Rhode Island Coll.; season complete
#   21   Rhode Island College (27-3) def. Coast Guard 64-60; def. Brandeis 70-67; def. Keene St. 75-73 at Amherst; plays at #6 Amherst (27-2) Sat.
#   22   Salem St. (24-3) received a bye; lost to Keene St. 76-75; season complete
#   23   Centre (24-5) def. Capital 69-55 at Wooster; lost at #2 Wooster 73-56; season complete
#   24   NYU (22-6) def. St. Joseph's (NY) 87-68; def. Rutgers-Newark 82-72; def. Richard Stockton 58-55 (ECAC Metro tournament); season complete
#   25   John Carroll (21-10) def. Westminster (PA) 87-83; won at Lake Erie 79-77; lost to #2 Wooster 83-73 at St. John Fisher; season complete

[kiltedbryan]

I think it's a pretty good credit to the Top 25 poll that 5 of the final 8 teams in the NCAA tournament will come from the pre-tournament Top 10.  Only one of the final 8, Brockport State, came into the tournament unranked nationally.  Just speaks to the knowledge of Pat's voters.

[pg04]

I think it's a pretty good credit to the Top 25 poll that 5 of the final 8 teams in the NCAA tournament will come from the pre-tournament Top 10.  Only one of the final 8, Brockport State, came into the tournament unranked nationally.  Just speaks to the knowledge of Pat's voters.

And Brockport has played no one in the top 25 yet, so it was pretty much an inevitability that there would be a non ranked team as the 8th team....

I agree that the poll does do a good job of gauging the strengths of the teams.  I do however hope this means that Brockport will sneak into the top 25 at the end of the season.   

[Pat Coleman]

This seems reasonable.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm pretty sure Brockport's been getting voted sporadically throughout the year anyway.  It's not like they came out of nowhere, but they are more one of those isolated teams that no one is really too sure about.

They're solid.  No real surprises for me at least.  Now if Hope hangs with WashU, I'm really going to have to start eating some crow.  Luckily, it's such a popular dish on this website that they really know how to prepare it.

[David Collinge]

I'm pretty sure Brockport's been getting voted sporadically throughout the year anyway.  It's not like they came out of nowhere, but they are more one of those isolated teams that no one is really too sure about.

They're solid.  No real surprises for me at least.  Now if Hope hangs with WashU, I'm really going to have to start eating some crow.  Luckily, it's such a popular dish on this website that they really know how to prepare it.

Brockport has been mostly disregarded by the pollsters this season.  They made only one appearance in the voting, getting 20 votes in week 6.  The Golden Eagles were in the top 25 every week of the 2001-02 season, reaching as high as #4, but otherwise have made just one top 25 appearance in the 8 year history of the poll (preseason 02-03).

[David Collinge]

Five of the top 10 teams in the final pre-tournament D3Hoops.com top 25 poll have reached the sectional finals, and it is interesting to note that this is the maximum.  The five who didn't get that far were all blocked by another top 10 team that did (except, of course, for #9 UW-Oshkosh, who didn't get a bid):  #1 UW-Stevens Point's bracket was won by #8 Wash. U.; #5 St. Thomas and #7 Augustana were all in #10 Hope's octet; and #3 Mississippi College fell to #4 Virginia Wesleyan.  While the poll might not have necessarily favored these five teams, it did max out on top 10 teams advancing.

In fact, with one exception, it maxed out on top 20 teams advancing, with teams ranked #20 or higher occupying six of seven possible sectional final slots.  The only top 20 team that was edged out by a non-top 20 team was #20 Trinity (CT), whose octet was won by #21 Rhode Island College.

Seven of the eight sectional finalists are ranked #21 or higher, and the eighth (unranked Brockport St.) won a grouping wherein all 8 teams were unranked.

Looking back a little further, it is worthy of mention that the teams ranked #1, #2, and #3 in the preseason poll are all sectional finalists.  In all, four of the eight sectional finalists were ranked in the preseason top 25, and four other teams from that poll lost in sectional semifinals last night. 

Not too shabby, voters.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Kudos to the d3hoops.com voters - the Final Four teams were the #2, 4, 6, and 8 teams in the final regular-season poll (and directly eliminated #1 and 3).  Hard to do any better than that!

Furthermore, 3 of the 4 were ranked 1, 2, and 3 in the preseason poll!  (Only Wash U was mostly overlooked early on, receiving only 3 points.)

[David Collinge]

Top 25 Tournament Glance (UPDATED through the Sectionals)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (26-3) received a bye; def. St. John's (21-7) 93-76; lost to #8 Washington U. 78-66; season complete
#   2   Wooster (29-3) def. Transylvania 92-66; def. #23 Centre 73-56; def. #25 John Carroll 83-73 at St. John Fisher; def. Brockport St. 94-87 (OT) at St. John Fisher; plays #6 Amherst (28-2) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   3   Mississippi College (27-3) def. #15 Occidental 68-51; def. Maryville (TN) 76-56; lostat #4 Virginia Wesleyan 81-55; season complete
#   4   Virginia Wesleyan (27-4) def. Averett 63-60; def. Hampden-Sydney 61-51; def. #3 Miss. College 81-55; def. #19 Guilford 81-71; plays #8 Washington U. (24-4) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   5   St. Thomas (24-4) received a bye; lost to Carroll 86-80; season complete
#   6   Amherst (28-2) received a bye; def. Widener 87-70; def. Stevens 97-74; def. #21 Rhode Island Coll. 81-69; plays #2 Wooster (29-3) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   7   Augustana (22-6) lost to Carroll in NCAA 1st round; season complete
#   8   Washington U. (24-4) def. Fontbonne 77-58; def. #11 Whitworth 63-61; won at #1 UW-Stevens Point 78-66; def. #10 Hope 58-55 at UW-Stevens Point; plays #4 Virginia Wesleyan (27-4) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   9   UW-Oshkosh (21-6) season complete
#   10   Hope (26-5) def. #12 Chicago 76-54 at Aurora; def. Calvin 80-64 at Aurora; def. Carroll 89-77 at UW-Stevens Point; lost to #8 Washington U. 58-55 at UW-Stevens Point; season complete
#   11   Whitworth (24-4) def. DePauw 62-59 (OT) at Washington U.; lost at #8 Wash. U. 63-61; season complete
#   12   Chicago (20-6) lost to #10 Hope 76-54 at Aurora; season complete
#   13   Elmhurst (21-6) season complete
#   14   Aurora (25-3) lost to Calvin 69-68; season complete
#   15   Occidental (19-6) lost at #3 Mississippi College 68-51; season complete
#   16   UW-La Crosse (19-8) season complete
#   17   Wittenberg (22-5) season complete
#   18   Worcester Polytech (22-4) lost to Stevens 68-57 at Ramapo; season complete
#   19   Guilford (24-5) def. Manhattanville 101-81 at Johns Hopkins; won at Johns Hopkins 80-73; def. Lincoln 129-128 (3 OT) at Virginia Wesleyan; lost at #4 Virginia Wesleyan 81-71; season complete
#   20   Trinity (CT) (21-5) lost to Brandeis 77-70 (OT) at Rhode Island Coll.; season complete
#   21   Rhode Island College (27-4) def. Coast Guard 64-60; def. Brandeis 70-67; def. Keene St. 75-73 at Amherst; lost at #6 Amherst 81-69; season complete
#   22   Salem St. (24-3) received a bye; lost to Keene St. 76-75; season complete
#   23   Centre (24-5) def. Capital 69-55 at Wooster; lost at #2 Wooster 73-56; season complete
#   24   NYU (22-6) def. St. Joseph's (NY) 87-68; def. Rutgers-Newark 82-72; def. Richard Stockton 58-55 (ECAC Metro tournament); season complete
#   25   John Carroll (21-10) def. Westminster (PA) 87-83; won at Lake Erie 79-77; lost to #2 Wooster 83-73 at St. John Fisher; season complete

[Ralph Turner]

It was a bad year to be odd, even with all of the upsets and wild games that we have had!

[mark_reichert]

Not too shabby, voters.

Other than giving the WashU men all of 3 votes in the preseason, perhaps.  Somebody suggested they may be ranked #1 in the 2007-2008 preseason pool.  Would that be the greatest jump preseason poll to preseason poll?

[David Collinge]

It was a bad year to be odd, even with all of the upsets and wild games that we have had!

Top 25 Tournament Glance (UPDATED through the Sectionals)

#   2   Wooster (29-3) def. Transylvania 92-66; def. #23 Centre 73-56; def. #25 John Carroll 83-73 at St. John Fisher; def. Brockport St. 94-87 (OT) at St. John Fisher; plays #6 Amherst (28-2) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   4   Virginia Wesleyan (27-4) def. Averett 63-60; def. Hampden-Sydney 61-51; def. #3 Miss. College 81-55; def. #19 Guilford 81-71; plays #8 Washington U. (24-4) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   6   Amherst (28-2) received a bye; def. Widener 87-70; def. Stevens 97-74; def. #21 Rhode Island Coll. 81-69; plays #2 Wooster (29-3) Fri. at Salem, VA
#   8   Washington U. (24-4) def. Fontbonne 77-58; def. #11 Whitworth 63-61; won at #1 UW-Stevens Point 78-66; def. #10 Hope 58-55 at UW-Stevens Point; plays #4 Virginia Wesleyan (27-4) Fri. at Salem, VA

Two--Four--Six--Eight--Who do we appreciate?  Voters!  Voters!  Voters!!! 8)

By the way, the women's voters didn't do too badly either; the Women's Final Four is #6 vs. #11 and #9 vs. #10; and three of these teams were in the preseason top 12 (#3, #8, #12).     

[Titan Q]

I was the only voter to give Wash U a preseason vote (#23).......and had to have been the only voter to not vote for Amherst in the preseason poll. 

[Titan Q]

Well, in looking at how things have shaken out this year, I feel good about my season long theory that there is a) tremendous parity in Division III basketball, and b) not a dominant team, ala UW-Stevens Point in 2004 and 2005.  I think the four teams in Salem are extremely even and I think these teams are right on par with several that didn't make it.  The games last night indicate a lot of parity among the Elite 8 teams and I think there are many that didn't make it that far that are right there.  In my neck of the woods, for example, Elmhurst (not even in the field) is every bit as good as Wash U, as is Augustana (lost to Carroll in Round 1), which beat Wash U in the non-conference.  My only question was whether or not UW-Stevens Point was a tier above Wash U, Augie, and Elmhurst (since I did not see UW-SP this year) - and I suspected they were not since Augie only lost by 3 at Stevens Point - and Wash U answered that question Friday night.  Just a bunch of even teams out my way this year and having seen Amherst and Virginia Wesleyan in the Final Four last year, I think this cluster of top Midwest/West teams is dead even with everybody else.

I no longer feel bad for having such a tough time voting this year.  I think there were about 10 really even top teams this year and then several others in a tier right behind.  The four teams that played the best at the right time earned the right to go to Salem, and that's how it should be.  Should be a great Final Four.