Top 25 talk

[Mr. Ypsi]

Not sure what board would be appropriate for this.  UPS had THREE players score 30+ points last night.  Anyone know just how rare that was?  (I doubt that is any official category for records, and have no clue how to research it.)

We pursued this for a bit, and no one could find a topper - I'll consider it a d3 (trivia) record unless I hear otherwise.

Belatedly, here's another trivia record for your perusal: last Saturday (1-12-08) the CCIW's four games were decided by a total of SIX points (and since one of the 2-pointers went to OT, in regulation they were divided by FOUR points).  Can anyone match or beat that?  (Apocryphally, the National Enquirer reports that CCIW coaches aged an average of 2.8 years, 36 fans suffered heart attacks, but it was a helluva fun night! )

[Marty Peretz]

If Brandeis beats Rochester, how far does Rochester fall in the poll? Provided, they keep it close, I can't justify bumping them down anywhere below 3 (I'd keep them at 2, since Amherst didn't win easilly this weekend). If Deis loses, can you justify dropping them below third either? Is it possible that at the end of the weekend, the UAA could have the nation's top 3 teams? I realize it's unlikely, but it's not terribly far fetched and likely would have been the case if Amherst hadn't eeked out that win against Bates.

[Pat Coleman]

Rochester could fall below Amherst, theoretically. Less easy to put Brandeis below Amherst.

[Ralph Turner]

"#4" UMHB had a tough trip to Abilene.  UMHB's recent football romps thru the ASC set up revenge time amongst opponents when they get a chance to even the score in another sport.

HSU beat "arch-rival" UMHB on Thursday night.  Saturday afternoon, UMHB went across town to play McMurry with South Regional Rankings and hosting the ASC Tourney foremost. For McMurry (6-8/3-7), the game was a chance for McM to bounce back in a season that has seen 6 conference losses that were 7-point games (or less) in the last 30 secs and 5 losses by only 20 total points.  McMurry held out for 79-76 win.

I think that this weekend's games have shown the parity that is the current ASC.  D-III is finally making a penetration into the minds of the players in the state.  Recent improvements (HPU's floor), new webcasts and video feeds (UT-Dallas, UT-Tyler, ETBU, LeTU, Miss College, Concordia-Austin) and new facilities (Schreiner's proposed gym, SRSU's new gym, UT-Tyler's new gym and campus construction, Concordia's entirely new campus in 2008-09!) have raised the profile of the other schools to the level of interest seen at McMurry and Hardin-Simmons in the early part of the decade.

I submit to my readers that the parity of the conference, the isolation and the "newcomer" status have made it hard for many fans to know how strong that this conference is.  Doing well on a national stage at playoff time is tough when one is shipped 1000 miles away.

The best men's team that I have seen was the 2000 McMurry men's team.  The committee set up the bracket from Hades when they put #1 (Calvin), #2 (Hampden-Sydney), #3 (Wooster)  and #4 (McMurry) in the country in the same bracket at Calvin. HSC lost to Maryville TN in the second round. McMurry beat Pomona-Pitzer in the second round 111-76, after the Sagehens had beaten #9 Trinity in the first round.  In that year, the Great Lakes and South Regions were paired.  (Rather than the regional aligments, I would have preferred the committee to send teams from the Midwest, West and near South to Abilene.)

The next best ASC team that I saw was the 2001 McMurry team that lost to Horace Jenkins' (finalist) William Paterson team the Sweet 16 at CNU, but the 2004 Sul Ross State team that beat UDallas and then beat #12 Trinity TX in San Antonio in the 2nd round had the most potential to advance.  The Lobos were shipped with Champion UW-SP and #23 Lawrence to #8 Puget Sound for the sectional.  On the neutral floor, SRSU lost to the Larrys in OT, who in turn lost to UWSP in OT.   SRSU (21-9/10-4 ASC-West) finished at #25, but was one of 5 excellent teams in the conference.)

In 2007 Mississippi College is one case where a good team is flown 984 miles to Norfolk, where they get behind the home team and get blown away by the frenzied crowd of the eventual finalist!

On the women's side, Trinity was the 2003 champion and defeated HSU on HSU's home floor, where Trinity had played in the regular season and in the previous years.  Trinity got to catch Wash StL Lady Bears at HSU for the sectional finals.  I would submit that HSU's Mabee Complex in front of the Texas crowd was a friendly neutral floor.  The Lady Tigers took it from Abilene to Terre Haute, another "friendly" neutral court, home of SCAC-member Rose-Hulman.

In 2006, Hardin-Simmons Cowgirls finished 3rd in the ASC-West behind McMurry and Howard Payne. Cinderella went dancing in her cowgirl boots to the Final Four, leaving behind two teams that felt like they were just as good.  The First Round bracket of Trinity, Howard Payne, Hardin-Simmons and McMurry was one of the best assembled in this decade. HSU beat #18 McMurry, #22 Howard Payne, and then #12 Pacific Lutheran and host #8 Randolph-Macon, who had eliminated #14 UW-Stout (2006 Final Top 25).

The ASC should be tough for the men.  The Women have three national powers now that HSU Cowgirls, with their 10 new players, are getting their act together.  If we can use the word parity for the CCIW and the WIAC, then I believe that it applies to the ASC, just one tier below.

[theBroadcaster]

Just to let everyone know, WBRS Sports has made the 6 hr trip from Waltham to Rochester to broadcast the big game tomorrow at noon.  Log on to www.wbrs.org or tune your radios to 100.1FM in the Waltham area to hear all the action as #2 Brandeis battles #1 Rochester.

[Pat Coleman]

Feel free to join the blog discussion on this game:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2008/01/20/game-day-no-2-brandeis-at-no-1-rochester/

[LU 05]

Isn't it anout time Lawrence is at least receiving some votes?   Does one season (last) of mediocrity completely erase the national reputation they have built in the last 5 years?

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 14-20)(COMPLETE)      
      
#   1   Rochester (14-0) def. NYU 70-54 and def. #2 Brandeis 74-68
#   2   Brandeis (12-2) won at #24 Carnegie Mellon 60-48 and lost at #1 Rochester 74-68
#   3   Amherst (13-2) won at Elms 73-67, def. Tufts 79-68, and def. Bates 77-76
#   4   Mary Hardin-Baylor (11-3) lost at Hardin-Simmons 76-66 and lost at McMurry 79-76
#   5   Washington U. (12-2) def. Emory 85-63 and def. Case Western Reserve 85-57
#   6   Hope (12-2) def. Kalamazoo 88-60 and def. Adrian 74-70
#   7   Puget Sound (12-2) def. Whitman 106-86 and lost to Whitworth 83-78
#   8   Williams (14-2) def. Lasell 75-65, lost at Bowdoin 78-73, and won at Colby 67-61
#   9   Augustana (11-4) def. #18 Wheaton (IL) 66-61 and lost at Carthage 74-68
#   10   UW-Whitewater (13-2) def. UW-Stout 92-64
#   11   UW-Stevens Point (13-3) won at UW-Stout 83-77 and def. UW-Superior 78-57
#   12   Elmhurst (12-3) lost to Carthage 79-68 and def. Illinois Wesleyan 90-77
#   13   Capital (13-2) won at Heidelberg 99-90 and def. Otterbein 86-57
#   14   Mass.-Dartmouth (15-0) def. Eastern Conn. 97-92 and won at Plymouth State 84-80
#   15   Stevens (12-2) lost at St. John Fisher 71-59 and won at Alfred 60-49
#   16   UW-Oshkosh (12-4) lost at UW-Eau Claire 57-54 and won at UW-La Crosse 81-68
#   17   Guilford (9-4) lost at Roanoke 68-56 and won at Emory & Henry at 120-112
#   18   Wheaton (IL) (12-3) lost at #9 Augustana 66-61 and def. North Park 70-63
#   19   Wooster (12-3) won at Hiram 117-87 and lost at Wittenberg 87-86 (OT)
#   20   Centre (14-1) won at Austin 68-62 and won at Colorado Coll. 70-55
#   21   Plattsburgh St. (12-2) def. SUNYIT 81-69 and def. Cortland St. 74-69
#   22   Virginia Wesleyan (11-3) def. Hampden-Sydney 73-58 and won at Lynchburg 92-64
#   23   Millsaps (15-1) won at U. of Dallas 66-55, def. Oglethorpe 103-76 and def. Sewanee 76-75
#   24   Carnegie Mellon (10-4) lost to #2 Brandeis 60-48 and lost to NYU 63-58
#   25   Randolph-Macon (13-2) def. Eastern Mennonite 94-68 and won at Hampden-Sydney 72-59

[LogShow]

Puget Sound will definately drop...Does Whitworth have a chance to get some votes for knocking off Puget Sound.

Lewis & Clarck lost again...they are one preseason top 25 team that has really struggled this year.

[pbrooks3]

Where do Centre (#20 & 14-1) and Millsaps (#23 & 15-1) stack up in the next poll?  These 2 teams that lead their respective divisions of the SCAC at this point play each other on Friday night (Jan 25) at Centre.

[Ralph Turner]

Where do Centre (#20 & 14-1) and Millsaps (#23 & 15-1) stack up in the next poll?  These 2 teams that lead their respective divisions of the SCAC at this point play each other on Friday night (Jan 25) at Centre.

I will guess that they "float up" 2-4 places each, just because they won and plenty of teams above them lost.

Millsaps' home game versus Sewanee was not re-assuring.

But, a conference win is a conference win!

[pbrooks3]

Millsaps has a way of doing this from time to time, but they are experienced and talented.  They had a nice game Friday night against Oglethorpe, and it often happens that they follow-up an outstanding game with a poor one.  They'll be ready when they go to Danville Friday.  Thanks for the insight.

[nwhoops1903]

Whitworth is playing some very nice defense and just won both weekend games on the road against 2 of the top teams in the NWC.  Winning at UPS is a very difficult challenge and I would hope to see the Pirates get some attention from voters.  A young team, 1 returning starter, Whitworth is putting together a nice season.

[Greek Tragedy]

Isn't it anout time Lawrence is at least receiving some votes?   Does one season (last) of mediocrity completely erase the national reputation they have built in the last 5 years?

You know that I'm hardly a Lawrence U. follower, but I'm somewhat familiar with them over the years since I have seen them play "a lot" for a team that isn't in the WIAC.  They are a pretty good team, I will give you that and they've had a good recent history, and argue it or not, I think that plays into current polls.

Lawrence is currently 10-1 and 6-0 in the MWC.  Unfortunately, they don't have any impressive wins and their lone loss, at Stevens Point (13-3, 5-2 WIAC), was by 19.  I think if they would've even kept it remotely close, they would've been considered for some votes.  But their schedule right now isn't doing them any favors.  At the beginning of the year, I'm sure that Dominican (7-9, 4-5 NathCon) win looked a lot better than it does now.  The Stars were picked to finish near the top of the NathCon, but they are under .500 in conference, while Concordia (IL) (2-13, 2-8 NathCon)is just plain bad.  The Lake Forest (7-6. 3-3 MWC) and Monmouth (4-10, 4-4 MWC) wins aren't going to open any eyes, though I think the Foresters aren't horrible.  Not sure about their opponents they played down in Florida, but they were both non-D3 schools, I gather.  Ripon (6-7, 1-5 MWC) played well against Point, but LU's win over them isn't going to win you votes since Ripon has 1 more win in the MWC than I do, and I don't even play.  Big win over Grinnell (9-4, 4-2 MWC), who started off well, but most in the D3 world kind of discount the Pioneers' success.  I do remember it took Grinnell to go 13-0 or something like that a few years ago before breaking into the Top 25 and then rewarded the voters by tanking. lol.

The conference isn't helping much...and neither is the schedule at this time.  The Vikings  have a big matchup on Tuesday with ranked Oshkosh (12-4, 6-2 WIAC) and they do head to Grinnell this weekend for the return match.  At the beginning of February, they play Carroll College (9-3, 5-1 MWC), really the only other MWC team with NCAA tourney history/success.  Those Pioneers have 3 losses, blowout losses to Point and Whitewater and a tough loss to the other Pioneers of Grinnell. 

The only way the Vikings will open up some eyes is if they knock off the Titans on Tuesday, otherwise, I could see a senario where they run the table in the MWC, end up 23-2 (losses to Point and Oshkosh) and not even break the Top 25 because the MWC isn't really perceived as a real strong conference and to add the fact that it's probably down this year (Carroll lost Drury and Colomy, Grinnell is down and LU had a tough year last year and a new coach this year).

[John Gleich]

  Ripon (6-7, 1-5 MWC) played well against Point, but LU's win over them isn't going to win you votes since Ripon has 1 more win in the MWC than I do, and I don't even play. 

This one made me chuckle Tom... funny stuff!