Top 25 talk

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I bet the answer is Wooster! 

[sac]

Only 51 poll points separates #6 from #10.  If votes were distrubuted exactly evenly you would expect that difference to be 125 poll points.

Actually, only 100 points (all 6s = 500; all 10s = 400), but good point.

I misstyped it, it should have been #5 to #10 are separated by 51 poll votes.  That does equal 125.

[Ralph Turner]

UMD's massey mov SOS drops to 145
Centre's is 202
Mary Hardin Baylor's is 156

It's tough to assess these teams, because although their record speaks volumes, their schedules do not.  However, just because they have played lax schedules does not mean they are not worthy of a high ranking.  We just won't know till the tournament. 

One other factor about which I wish I had the statistical understanding is the isolation effect that the ASC has with its 20/21 game conference schedule and the paucity of D3 teams that it can play.

Do all of the D-1's that ASC teams play for money games really reflect the quality of play?  (Why does the ASC play some many D-1's?  A road trip from ASC-West to Mississippi College and Louisiana College can cost $6000 dollars.  Outside the UAA, the SCAC and the NWC, what conference has those expenses for conference games?)

If UMHB is 156, then they are a strong #156.  (The loss that McMurry put on UMHB in Abilene was due to the presence of Travis Tennison in the post.  Travis came in at semester and was responsible for the up-tick.  He has been medically sidelined since the UMHB game.  UMHB takes a bullet in the one month window that Travis was there.)

(Man, here I am defending UMHB...ughhh.     Sometimes it is tough defending your principles!      )

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, fixed!  Nine-team leagues really test my schedule-reading-comprehesions skills, and I frequently fail the test. ...dc

Actually, I think it's the easiest league to follow.  Wednesday and Saturday games.  That's it with one team with a bye.  Some leagues have one game on one night, two games on another night and then all the teams (even ones that played earlier in the week) all on Saturday...CRAZY I SAY! lol

"Easiest league to follow"? How can it be the easiest league to follow when it's an odd-numbered league that by necessity has a bye every game night?
[...]
The CCIW has eight teams. Everybody plays Wednesday night at 7:30 pm, and everybody plays Saturday night at 7:30 pm. Eight teams, four games, twice a week on the same days and at the same times. And, unlike the UAA, you don't even have to mess with two different time zones when you're looking at the league's master schedule. Tell me it can get any easier than that!

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan's women have a disruptive tendency to play Tuesdays, which throws my rhythm off a bit.

I'm only talking about men's basketball in the CCIW.

[LogShow]

Man, here I am defending UMHB...ughhh

If you are actually defending them...they must really deserve the credit

[sumander]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Feb. 4-10)       
      
#   19   St. Thomas (17-3) def. Macalester 68-53, plays at Bethel Wed., and hosts Gustavus Adolphus Sat.

Score actually was 100-48

Fixed, thanks...in my defense, the scoreboard was wrong when I went to bed, I didn't just make that score up! ...dc

Not a problem, you have got a lot to follow any way!

[David Collinge]

Augie has an established reputation and has been highly ranked all year (in fact, 40 straight weeks in the Top 25). 

David,

Sorry for the hijack, but since this is the top 25 poll thread and since you seem likely to know the answer off the top of your head without spending several hours clicking through archived poll results, I was curious as to which men's team has the longest active weekly streak of consecutive top 25 appearances?  I did a quick scan on the Amherst end and it's something like 80 straight weeks (plus or minus 2 weeks, number could be adjusted downward if you don't want to count preseason and final season polls) -- otherwise, in every week since Week 13 in the 2001-02 season.  Not bad. 

I talk about this kind of stuff in my weekly blog post (part of the Daily Dose); if you find it interesting, I suggest you tune in later this afternoon.    In the meantime, the answer to your question is Amherst, whose current streak of Top 25 appearance is at 89, a men's poll record.  (D-mac, Wooster is right behind at 87.)

[fpc85]

I do not get how Rochester stays put with a loss at home to an unranked opponent, and Brandeis which goes 2-0 on the week falls.

I do not get how people insist on looking at the poll in just one small slice instead of the big picture.

Fans

[wooscotsfan]

UMD's massey mov SOS drops to 145
Centre's is 202
Mary Hardin Baylor's is 156

It's tough to assess these teams, because although their record speaks volumes, their schedules do not.  However, just because they have played lax schedules does not mean they are not worthy of a high ranking.  We just won't know till the tournament. 

...and last year in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament (March 2007).
Wooster 73  Centre 56

Moreover, Centre's top 5 scorers this season (Britt, Thomason, Nestheide, Noll, Crowdis) all played in that tournament game vs. Wooster.  Yes, Wooster graduated some of their top players but Centre did as well (John Patterson and Matt Jacobson were senior starters for Centre last season).  My guess is that #15 Wooster would probably beat them (again) on a neutral court this year.

Centre wins games with tough defense (against a fairly weak schedule as scottiedawg noted) but that is less of a factor in the NCAA tournament when most teams are playing solid D.  Centre also appears to have limited depth on their frontline this year.  They start 6'5" Noll and 6'6" Herman but no other players over 6'4" are playing any significant minutes.

My point?  Centre is not the #5 team in the nation.  Not even close.
 

[Ralph Turner]

UMD's massey mov SOS drops to 145
Centre's is 202
Mary Hardin Baylor's is 156

It's tough to assess these teams, because although their record speaks volumes, their schedules do not.  However, just because they have played lax schedules does not mean they are not worthy of a high ranking.  We just won't know till the tournament. 

...and last year in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament (March 2007).
Wooster 73  Centre 56

Moreover, Centre's top 5 scorers this season (Britt, Thomason, Nestheide, Noll, Crowdis) all played in that tournament game vs. Wooster.  Yes, Wooster graduated some of their top players but Centre did as well (John Patterson and Matt Jacobson were senior starters for Centre last season).  My guess is that #15 Wooster would probably beat them (again) on a neutral court this year.

Centre wins games with tough defense (against a fairly weak schedule as scottiedawg noted) but that is less of a factor in the NCAA tournament when most teams are playing solid D.  Centre also appears to have limited depth on their frontline this year.  They start 6'5" Noll and 6'6" Herman but no other players over 6'4" are playing any significant minutes.

My point?  Centre is not the #5 team in the nation.  Not even close. 

But every one else that I have voted in the Posters Poll has blown their opportunity to be the 5th best team in the nation.

As an outsider from the "power circles of D3 basketball" down in the ASC, I surmise that there is a very small gap between the schools in the Top 50 this year.  I think that there are about 20 schools that should be ranked about 12th and 10 schools that are solid #8's.  We have incredible parity, and no "Top 5's".

I took a flyer on Titan Q's bold assessment that the Carthage team that we were seeing prior to a week ago was not the representation that came to Texas in the first half of the season.  I placed them #9 in my poster's poll ballot.  They promptly lost 2 more CCIW games last week.

If the net effect of the D3Hoops.com has been to level the "playing fields" by making us fans more knowledgeable about D3 basketball, then we are going to have a great tourney.  We may see dueling Cinderellas coming from conferences that we have not seen in this decade.

[kiltedbryan]

UMD's massey mov SOS drops to 145
Centre's is 202
Mary Hardin Baylor's is 156

It's tough to assess these teams, because although their record speaks volumes, their schedules do not.  However, just because they have played lax schedules does not mean they are not worthy of a high ranking.  We just won't know till the tournament. 

...and last year in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament (March 2007).
Wooster 73  Centre 56

Moreover, Centre's top 5 scorers this season (Britt, Thomason, Nestheide, Noll, Crowdis) all played in that tournament game vs. Wooster.  Yes, Wooster graduated some of their top players but Centre did as well (John Patterson and Matt Jacobson were senior starters for Centre last season).  My guess is that #15 Wooster would probably beat them (again) on a neutral court this year.

My point?  Centre is not the #5 team in the nation.  Not even close.
 

WSF, I'm having a little trouble following your logic here.  First, that tournament game was @ Wooster- they certainly weren't playing on a "neutral" floor. Perhaps you mean to use a neutral floor just as a comparison technique...but then don't present the score from last year's NCAAs like it was on a neutral floor- it was in fact an emotional final home game for Wooster's seniors.

Also, Centre convincingly beat Capital in round 1 of that tourney last year, 69-55. That Capital squad is essentially the same one that is currently ranked #8 in the country (Cap graduated only one player, and he was about the 3rd guy off the bench).

So, I read Centre's performance in last year's NCAAs as a good one: they beat a good team in Capital, who was both the regular season and tournament champion of the respected OAC...then they lost to a Wooster team that clearly had the talent and the drive to make a run at Salem.  My impression from watching Centre last year in those two tournament games was that they could easily have been a sweet sixteen team if they hadn't drawn a Wooster team hell-bent on Salem (and playing its last home game of the year).

I talked to several Centre fans during those games, and they almost universally noted that it was next year (ie. this season) that they were really looking forward too.  I think they clearly expected to be better this year.

Much more to the point, though, for the current Top 25, is that I sincerely doubt the voters look back at all at last season's tournament results, for the very reasons you indicated: players change, teams change, and schedules change. They have to evaluate the teams as they have played this season, with the players they have this season...and by that evaluation, 18-1 with an 18-game winning streak looks pretty strong in a year of tight parity at the top.

[Titan Q]

I took a flyer on Titan Q's bold assessment that the Carthage team that we were seeing prior to a week ago was not the representation that came to Texas in the first half of the season.  I placed them #9 in my poster's poll ballot.  They promptly lost 2 more CCIW games last week.

I sure wouldn't have slotted Carthage #9, Ralph.  That is quite a flyer.

Carthage is a different team than they were back mid-December, when they faced Trinity and Southwestern.  Sharp-shooting sophomore Sean Fendley made his season debut in the Trinity game, going 1-4 from 3 in 18 minutes off the bench.  Against Southwestern he was 1-8 in 21 minutes.

Bosko Djurickovic inserted Fendley, a 2-guard, into the starting lineup for the Red Men's first CCIW game, at Wheaton.  It really changed their lineup as it moved freshman sensation Steve Djurickovic (23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.7 apg) from the 3 to the point, and former PG Joe Higgins went to the bench.  Higgins is a good ball-handler and passer, but he just is not a scoring threat at all (1.9 ppg in 29 min/game this year).  So with Fendley, Carthage now has one more serious scoring threat on the floor.

In CCIW play, Fendley is 13th in scoring (13.7 ppg) and is a very impressive 18-35 (.514) from 3-point range.  His impact has been enormous for the Red Men in a lot of ways, including the fact that his presence has allowed Djurickovic to shift to the point, where he's been outstanding.

Carthage played Hope and Calvin without Fendley, back when non-scoring threat Joe Higgins was the point-guard and Djurickovic was the 3.  They played Trinity and Southwestern with a Fendley that was just settling in after missing a lot of time with injury.  I am not 100% sold on Carthage myself, but they are a much, much better basketball team than they were in December.  That I'm sure of.

[LogShow]

If the net effect of the D3Hoops.com has been to level the "playing fields" by making us fans more knowledgeable about D3 basketball, then we are going to have a great tourney.  We may see dueling Cinderellas coming from conferences that we have not seen in this decade.

This event seems to becoming more and more likely

[LogShow]

I talk about this kind of stuff in my weekly blog post (part of the Daily Dose); if you find it interesting, I suggest you tune in later this afternoon.    In the meantime, the answer to your question is Amherst, whose current streak of Top 25 appearance is at 89, a men's poll record.  (D-mac, Wooster is right behind at 87.)

Nice write up David, always enjoy them!

[LogShow]

Puget Sound squares off against Pacific Lutheran tonight.  Quick turn around from their disappointing loss on Saturday.  Hopefully they can stop the bleeding and get back on the right track.