Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

NYU 92
Rochester 85 (2 OT)

Rochester couldn't close it out in regulation or in the first OT.  They missed some key FT's.  NYU hit a bit 3 to send it to double OT, where they jumped on Rochester.

Exciting broadcast to listen to - I tuned in with 2:00 to play in regulation.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Titan Q - you and I tuned in at about the same point. Great game... but Rochester lost this game. Bad free-throw shooting and NYU was very solid from the line.

Believe it or not, but Rochester is putting themselves in a situation where they may not make the tournament!

[Titan Q]

The UAA and CCIW seem very similar this year with all of the parity and close games between top half teams and bottom half teams.  Really fun leagues to follow.

[Greek Tragedy]

The UAA and CCIW seem very similar this year with all of the parity and close games between top half teams and bottom half teams.  Really fun leagues to follow.

Don't forget the WIAC! lol...

Eau Claire (5-9 in WIAC), beat Platteville (10-4) and Oshkosh (11-3).  Superior (5-10) just beat Platteville.  And there have been a lot of games where bottom half teams put in big scares against those top half teams.

[BoomerIL]

I am a Rochester "homer" but as I mentioned in a previous post, their free-throw shooting has really hurt them.  I even think it has gotten into their heads that they can't make free-throws.  I also mentioned like Dave "d-mac" Mchugh said, this loss could have possibly kept them from the tournament if not close to it.

There is no excuse for this to happen as they have a very good team!!  I hope there is time to re-group.

[wooscotsfan]

Why #14 Wooster (20-3) should be ranked in the #6 to #10 range?

1.  Five Players back who played significant minutes on last year's Final 4 Team (Evan Will, Brandon Johnson, Marty Bidwell, Devin Fulk, James Cooper).

2.  All-American James Cooper is shooting 54% from the floor (52% on three pointers, 57 of 110).  He delivers this season when Wooster needs points.

3.  Three Losses were all on the road to above .500 teams by a combined 7 points.  Wooster avenged one of the losses by beating Wittenberg last night (Cooper had 24 points).

4.  Quality Wins (St. Thomas 20-3, Walsh 22-4, Farmingdale 19-4, others)

5.  Freshman Bryan Wickliffe 6'5" is starting and shooting 56% (10+ ppg).  Wooster has 5 players averaging double figures and the 6th at 9.7 ppg.

6.  Team Stats are very similar to Last Year (shooting higher 45.5 % on three pointers)

Several ranked teams currently above Wooster have either lost at home (Brandeis & Augustana twice, Capital, Rochester, Stevens Point), lost to teams with records now below .500 (Mary Hardin-Baylor twice, Capital, Augustana, Rochester) or now have a total of 4 or 5 losses on the season.  

Acknowledging my obvious bias, it is still hard to understand why Wooster is ranked below them??

[Pat Coleman]

I think that last year's performance tends to lose its relevance somewhere in early December. You make some other valid points, aside from Farmingdale being a quality win.

However, not all schedules are created equal. I don't think Wooster would be 20-3 playing some of those other schedules.

I'll agree on UMHB but not entirely sure I'd agree about anyone else as of last week's poll. After today is done, however, it may be a different story.

[ILive4This]

When we are talking quality wins, Brandeis has defeated both Amherst and Rochester both have been number 1 teams, they have losses to a team that climbed to #1 and another that climbed to #2, that means that the only questionable loss no matter where it was played was the loss to Chicago (who also defeated Rochester).

Scoring in double figures really does not mean anything. If your team plays a system (which I know Wooster doesnt) then you are going to score more points per game. How is their Points Against Average? How many players score in double figures against the scots?

[goscots]

This is the first time all season I have seen a post lobbying for Wooster to be higher in the poll then they are. I think the position where they are is fine considering the 'body of work' they have done this season.  Looking at DC's latest Top 25 update it doesn't look like Wooster will move much, if at all, this week. But in my heart I believe they have improved quite a bit throughout the season and have in fact become a top 10 team.

[Titan Q]

Several ranked teams currently above Wooster have either lost at home (Brandeis & Augustana twice, Capital, Rochester, Stevens Point), lost to teams with records now below .500 (Mary Hardin-Baylor twice, Capital, Augustana, Rochester) or now have a total of 4 or 5 losses on the season.  

Acknowledging my obvious bias, it is still hard to understand why Wooster is ranked below them??

Here is a fair question -- what do you think Wooster's record would be with, say, Augustana's schedule?

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUGU/m/2008


Massey has Wooster's strength of schedule as #100...Augustana is #5.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

[wooscotsfan]

Scoring in double figures really does not mean anything. If your team plays a system (which I know Wooster doesnt) then you are going to score more points per game. How is their Points Against Average? How many players score in double figures against the scots?

Wooster is giving up 70.0 ppg (Brandeis opponents are at 69.4).  Wooster averages 86.3 ppg on offense so their scoring differential is +16.3.  Wooster also holds their opponents to only 32.4% on three pointers while they shoot 45.5% themselves.  Wooster is also +7 on their rebounding margin this year.

My only point about 5 players in double figures was that Wooster has good scoring balance and James Cooper is not their only offensive threat.

I know that comparative scores are not completely reliable but Brandeis and Wooster both played a common opponent at home this year.

Brandeis 70  Kenyon 61
Wooster 81  Kenyon 63

[Ralph Turner]

...
Several ranked teams currently above Wooster have either lost at home (Brandeis & Augustana twice, Capital, Rochester, Stevens Point), lost to teams with records now below .500 (Mary Hardin-Baylor twice, Capital, Augustana, Rochester) or now have a total of 4 or 5 losses on the season. 

Acknowledging my obvious bias, it is still hard to understand why Wooster is ranked below them??

Point of clarification, wooscotfan.

UMHB has only one loss to a sub .500 team.  That was a road loss to McMurry at the end of a tough road trip.  UMHB had made the 3.5 hour bus ride to Abilene for the Thursday game.  They spent the night in Abilene Thursday and Friday night and then played on Saturday.

IMHO, the toughest conferences for travel in D3 are the UAA, (the plane flights), the SCAC (long flights or bus rides), the ASC (3-8 hour bus rides and 2-3 nights on the road, 4-6 times per year in the conference), and the NWC.

UMHB caught McMurry at the absolute best that McMurry was this year.  McMurry had gotten 2005 All-Conference center Travis Tennison back at semester, and he had gotten "up to speed".  Tennison was able to neutralize UMHB big men, including Ryan Burgart.  (Tennison has since been on medical leave for the last 6 games.)  UMHB also had trouble with (possible ASC-West POTY) HSU Center Mardochee Jean.  A dominating post will give UMHB trouble. 

If UMHB beats HSU this week at home, then I believe that they have answered the challenge to remain in the Top 20.

[Titan Q]

Scoring in double figures really does not mean anything. If your team plays a system (which I know Wooster doesnt) then you are going to score more points per game. How is their Points Against Average? How many players score in double figures against the scots?

Wooster is giving up 70.0 ppg (Brandeis opponents are at 69.4).  Wooster averages 86.3 ppg on offense so their scoring differential is +16.3.  Wooster also holds their opponents to only 32.4% on three pointers while they shoot 45.5% themselves.  Wooster is also +7 on their rebounding margin this year.

My only point about 5 players in double figures was that Wooster has good scoring balance and James Cooper is not their only offensive threat.

I know that comparative scores are not completely reliable but Brandeis and Wooster both played a common opponent at home this year.

Brandeis 70  Kenyon 61
Wooster 81  Kenyon 63

Again, very hard - maybe even misleading - to compare stats from a team with the 9th toughest schedule (Brandeis, per Massey) vs the 100th toughest.

The bottom half of the NCAC makes it very hard every season to accurately gauge Wooster and Wittenberg.

[wooscotsfan]

Several ranked teams currently above Wooster have either lost at home (Brandeis & Augustana twice, Capital, Rochester, Stevens Point), lost to teams with records now below .500 (Mary Hardin-Baylor twice, Capital, Augustana, Rochester) or now have a total of 4 or 5 losses on the season.  

Acknowledging my obvious bias, it is still hard to understand why Wooster is ranked below them??

Here is a fair question -- what do you think Wooster's record would be with, say, Augustana's schedule?

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUGU/m/2008


Massey has Wooster's strength of schedule as #100...Augustana is #5.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

Good point that Augustana has a tougher schedule than Wooster.  I still question Augustana's top 10 ranking though when they have lost at home to UW La Crosse (now 11-13) and on the road at North Park (now 12-11).  It will be interesting to see if the Vikings drop in the next poll now that they have picked up their 5th loss.

[ILive4This]

Also Brandeis played Kenyon in the second game of the season... and a win is a win, especially a 9 point victory in the start of the season when your trying to figure out how your lineup will work for the year.