South Region playoffs

Bob.Gregg · November 10, 2005, 05:18:18 PM

Quote from: Conrad on November 10, 2005, 05:10:47 PM
Great story Bob. The Presidents sure has a great team that year. Kicked Wesley butt (41-6). I was suprised they lost in the stagg bowl that year. The Wolverines gave you a little better run for the money in '95 (leading 10-0 at half).

Conrad, what's the chances that I've got a story on the '95 game too?

If you recall, it was pouring down rain, wind 25-30 mph, etc. Awful.

The old W&J press box had push-out windows held up with pieces of angle iron. Late third quarter, I stand up out of my seat to look around and out the old coaches box windows (which I could actually see out of) and the wind lifted my window up, then crashed down, shoving that angle iron square into the seat where I was 10 seconds earlier.

Until now, most people have no idea how close W&J was to becoming Washington, Jefferson & Gregg!!!

@d3jason · November 10, 2005, 05:24:32 PM

I remember it being about 72 degrees on the morning of that game and by the time it was over we were driving back to Dover in about 6 inches of snow. About half our team was hypothermic.

@d3jason · November 10, 2005, 05:37:47 PM

Coach Lucky was running his team into the locker room between series to keep them warm. He quite a character and a great coach. Wesley on the far sideline had no such shelter.

d3fbalumn · November 10, 2005, 07:17:50 PM

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 05:18:18 PM

Until now, most people have no idea how close W&J was to becoming Washington, Jefferson & Gregg!!!

Don't be so modest Bob....when it's your time they will probably drop the Washington & Jefferson altogether and just go with Gregg's College, or better yet Bob's College....LOL

Bob.Gregg · November 10, 2005, 07:31:22 PM

d3fbalumn,

The only problem with the stormy Wesley game day is that to have had the name change at the College, I would have been DEAD.

Of course, the other two guys that the school is named for are dead, too!

d3fbalumn · November 10, 2005, 07:59:43 PM

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 07:31:22 PM
d3fbalumn,

The only problem with the stormy Wesley game day is that to have had the name change at the College, I would have been DEAD.

Of course, the other two guys that the school is named for are dead, too!

I got it, that's why I prefaced with "when your time comes". We all hope that doesn't happen until after the 100th annual Stagg Bowl or beyond but when it does I will lobby hard for the "Gregg" addition.

PittTBCW · November 11, 2005, 01:08:27 AM

With the criteria and such pointing to Thiel as a number 1 seed then why aren't they???

With a 10-0 finish could they bump up two spots or does the top notch in the south belong to Trinity???

If the criteria says so then the Tomcats should be number one in the south. Forget about the past...thats why there is criteria just follow the dang rules!!!

mizzou_mafia · November 11, 2005, 06:41:32 AM

Quote from: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 01:08:27 AM
With the criteria and such pointing to Thiel as a number 1 seed then why aren't they???

Good question Pitt. You could check with the co-chairs of the South Region Evaluation Committee for the answer:

Charles Harris, Averett University, cochair (AD)
Steve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)

Cleveland Cartel · November 11, 2005, 08:18:50 AM

Mofia,

Trinitys coach is the cochair of the South Region Evaluation Commitee?

QuoteSteve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)

He must be a solid evaluater of talent due to his teams success in the playoffs and ablility to recruit solid football players, but how does someone get in the position as Evaluation Committee Chair?

Should coaches be on the voting commitees?

The argueing point that someone could always bring up is a predetermined bias for a team? Has their ever been any problems in the past with coaches being on the commitees or has it been a very smooth process?

I see both ways personally. I understand someones point if they thought a coach were being predetermined in their opinions. Not only that they are busy and constrained their own team and players from week to week. Whether its having player meetings, players getting in trouble at school, their grades with teachers, taking calls from fans, parents, newspapers, and having practice everday. Are they able to truly evaluate other teams on what is going on elsewhere in their region during the season. Pat Coleman who has the ability and time to follow all the teams in the Nation would be a tremendous evaluator and that is why he will be on ESPN this weekend.

Being a coach you do know talent when you see it, and you have been around the NCAA for sometime and you know how to judge a solid team that deserves to be in the playoffs. Are they given info on all the teams in their regions from the NCAA and pick from their criteria? How does that work?

Remeber I am not either way on this one just perplexed on how these chairs are picked and how they judge who gets in and who doesn't. Is their flaws to this system???

Llamaguy · November 11, 2005, 09:03:24 AM

Lets not accuse the Committee of wrong doing!

Here is the criteria:

Primary Criteria (not in priority order)

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
Quality-of-wins index- only contests versus regional competition
In-region head-to-head competition
In-region results vs. common regional opponents
In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams(ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process)
Conference postseason contest(s) is included

Secondary Criteria

Out-of region head-to-head competition
Overall Division III won-loss percentage
Results vs. common non-DIII opponents
Results vs. Division III teams ranked in other regions
Overall win-loss percentage
Results vs. common out-of-region opponents
Overall Division III strength of schedule

Win-loss= both are undefeated, Trinity one less game
Current QOWI index is basically a wash:
Thiel = 11.33
Trinity= 11.29
In region head to head = N/A
Common regional opponents = N/A
In region results vs Regionally ranked opp = Not considered until final rankings posted this Saturday
Conference postseason = N/A
Out of Region Head to head = N/A
Overall won loss percentage D III = 9-0 vs. 10-0 (Hurricane)
Results vs. non DIII = N/A
Results vs. other DIII ranked teams = N/A
Overall win loss percentage = 9-0 vs. 10-0 (Hurricane)
Results vs. out of region commons = N/A
Overall Division III strength of schedule:
Trinity = 91st toughest
Thiel = 136th toughest .... (taken from Massey Ratings)

mizzou_mafia · November 11, 2005, 09:22:41 AM

Llama,
Thiel does have a higher QOWI than Trinity, and as of this ranking, has a win over a ranked regional team. I don't see anywhere in the criteria where Trinity (or Ferrum) has the edge over Thiel.

Also, until HSC moved into the rankings this week, there was nothing in the criteria to support putting BC above HSU in the rankings. In the regional rankings up to this point, the South Region committee appears to not be following the criteria to a 'T', so it makes you look elsewhere for reasons as to why teams are ranked where they're ranked.

Thus, the following.

Cleveland,

Here's a listing of the South Region Evaluation Committee for this year, as posted in this thread earlier. I've added each member's conference affliation.

I've also bolded conferences that have at least one member on the committee and at least one team in the rankings. I've italicized any ranked team with a member on the committee.

USAC: Charles Harris, Averett University, cochair (AD)
SCAC: Steve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)
USAC: Paul Barnes, Shenandoah University (coach)
ODAC: Mike Clark, Bridgewater College (coach)
SCAC: Mike Clary, Rhodes College (AD)
CC: Mike Donnelly, Muhlenberg College (coach)
ASC: Ralph Harris, East Texas Baptist University (coach)

Here are the South Region's Top 10. I've included conference affliliation.

1. Trinity (SCAC)
2. Ferrum (USAC)
3. Thiel (PAC)
4. Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC)
5. Wesley (ACFC)
6. Bridgewater (ODAC)
7. Washington and Jefferson (PAC)
8. Hardin-Simmons (ASC)
9. DePauw (SCAC)
10. Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)

Ron Boerger · November 11, 2005, 09:28:38 AM

I also believe that committee members are not allowed to participate in rankings/discussion that involve their teams - or remember seeing that stated somewhere.

It would not surprise me to see Trinity drop after Saturday's game against an opponent with only two wins - their QOWI will go down as a result. I still can't figure why Ferrum is #2, though.

mizzou_mafia · November 11, 2005, 09:31:36 AM

One thing Llama,

Thiel QOWI: 11.33
Trinity QOWI: 11.143

Not a huge difference, but not quite as close as you posted. Plus, I don't think we should worry about SOS based on Massey Ratings, since that's not in the criteria.

Also, as you pointed out: "In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams(ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process". Each week is a time of ranking, correct? It doesn't matter for selection until next week, but I would think it would count for ranking right now.

And I hope the committee isn't even looking at a missed Trinity-Depauw game, as it never happened.

spliskin · November 11, 2005, 09:34:33 AM

Llamaguy,

Great analysis....After seeing this breakdown, I concur with your assesment.

Llamaguy · November 11, 2005, 09:50:47 AM

Point being Mizzou that the committee is not considering the Regional win for Thiel yet. Maybe they are considering it but if they aren't it makes things closer. As for the Strength of schedule, it is a secondary criteria and is considered. There is no other published SOS so if they don't use it they will consider it subjectively. I'm not defending the committee as I agree after this weekend Thiel could move up. But I seriously doubt that the Committee members are intentionally swaying the vote.

South Region playoffs

spliskin