MBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

Dave84 · January 09, 2008, 01:09:00 PM

pbrooks, i couldn't agree more with you about Devins.

Frank, I noticed that Millsaps didn't manage to break into the top 25 this week. Personally, I'd love to know how neither 10-1 team from the SCAC has broken in. Oh well, I guess the SCAC can't really argue much until we start putting up better results in the NCAA tournament.

billzeffer · January 09, 2008, 01:14:20 PM

I think it was pretty obvious to anyone that followed Trinity basketball over the course of Devins career that he was an extremely talented player who was surrounded by players equally as talented. Therefore, he had no reason to dominate games because the Trinity team was exactly that, a team, and played to win games not personal recognition. During the seasons from '01-'02 to '05-'06 Trinity had 7 players that could have played division 1 ball but chose to go to Trinity instead. When you have that many good players on one team it's going to be hard for any one of them to dominate. With all that said Devins was hands down the best and most feared defensive player the SCAC has seen in the past 15 years.

Dave84 · January 09, 2008, 01:24:47 PM

hey pbrooks, if you're in TN do you get over to very many Rhodes games? I noticed that Cory Smith was leading the league in scoring, but was wondering if it's in the same fashion that Joey Garcia scored a few years back. Rhodes always had a couple of players who were "shoot first, pass second" and i was wondering if he falls into that category, or is he just having an exceptional year in scoring?

spfan22 · January 09, 2008, 02:01:58 PM

Cory Smith is a scorer.. he is a little inconsistent.. he has games of 5 or 6 points and then will bust out and have a 35 point game.. his team isnt all that great so he has to score for his team to be in games.. he is similar to Joey Garcia.. However, I think he gets to the free throw line a little more than Garcia did.. he is also a little better with his slashing and mid-range game.. Garcia was a little better perimter shooter than Smith is.. overall.. i would assess that they are very similar players with a few differences here and there

vozdelospetrels · January 09, 2008, 10:06:16 PM

Dave84,

Your comments about Churchwell not demanding attention in the '04-'05 season because OU didn't win games is a little off, understandable though. OU finished 4th in the SCAC regular season with victories over Trinity and Centre. They almost went undefeated at home in SCAC play; their only loss coming at the hands of Southwestern by 1 or 2 points. They were a pretty decent basketball team and they have Churchwell to thank for that. The fact that Churchwell led the SCAC in in scoring and rebounding for like three straight years, and he never won POY honors is just crazy. In the '03-'04 season, when OU made it to the conference Championship game, Churchwell led the conference in rebounding and scoring and lost out to Philip Griffith of Rose Hulman I believe. You might say Griffith deserve it because Rose Hulman finished second that year in the regualr season, but OU finished 6th when they were picked to not even make the tourney. Griffith averaged 16.1 pts and 5.8 rbds per game in conference play while Churchwell averaged 17.8 pts and 7.8 rbds per game in conference play. Similar numbers but Churchwell's were still better. Phil even told Russ that Russ was more deserving, seriously he said it. Let's face it, Churchwell got shafted a couple of times. Also, Chuchwell out rebounded Devins every year, and Church is barely 6'4".

frank_ezelle · January 09, 2008, 11:07:17 PM

This is like comparing apples to oranges and I don't expect anyone to agree. I don't go back 15 years in the SCAC so I can't compare Devins to all of the top defensive players who have ever played in the league. I do know that I would list Daniel Waguespack as every bit the equal to Devins or anyone else that I've seen in the SCAC.

What Waguespack did game after game was shut down the top offensive threat from the opposing team, especially if that player played the 2, 3 or 4 spot. If needed, I also saw him shifted over to guard the 1 and 5 positions. Could he block shots like Devins or clog up the middle? No, but could Devins cover a player out on the perimeter? Like I said, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Waguespack may be the 5th leading scorer in SCAC history, but his real strength was on the defensive end. Despite the fact that he never won the POTY (he did win the defensive POTY), I would pick Daniel as the best player I've seen since I started watching SCAC basketball in the late 1990's.

(Let's see how many karma points I lose with this post.)

spfan22 · January 09, 2008, 11:25:54 PM

I like to hear everyone's opinions of previous SCAC seasons.. its dissapointing the message board wasn't this active when I played.. its good to see different views that people have for some players.. by the way.. speaking of the 03-04 POY.. Griffith played down here in atlanta the summer after he won POY in 03-04.. he was down here doing an internship and while he was down here he played on a summer league team with Burr and I and also played some pickup ball at OU.. I respect him as a person but it was a joke that he won POY.. Griffith did nothing in our summer league and was owned by many players at OU in pickup games.. First let me say you cant fully judge a player from summer league ball and pickup ball.. but I think a whole summer of playing with him was enough to know that there were 4 or 5 other players that year on good or decent teams that deserved it over him.. any thoughts or opinions..

on a side note.. I hope the games are a little more competitive this weekend.. there was quite a few of blowouts last weekend..

pbrooks3 · January 09, 2008, 11:48:15 PM

Quote from: Dave84 on January 09, 2008, 01:24:47 PM
hey pbrooks, if you're in TN do you get over to very many Rhodes games? I noticed that Cory Smith was leading the league in scoring, but was wondering if it's in the same fashion that Joey Garcia scored a few years back. Rhodes always had a couple of players who were "shoot first, pass second" and i was wondering if he falls into that category, or is he just having an exceptional year in scoring?

I live two blocks away and know Coach Hilgeman fairly well. He's coached a long time at Rhodes and enjoyed quite a bit of success. I hate seeing some of his more recent squads struggling. There are some talented players on his squad, but the concept of teamwork is frequently missing.

I've been to 2 games they've played this year. I saw the weekend game against their traveling partner, B-S. They didn't play well at all. They managed to win an out of conference game last night against the University of Dallas - I didn't see that one.

Cory Smith is a talented offensive player. He is capable of playing better. He doesn't come ready to play every night. At times, he is very indifferent, and it affects his defense, even though defense sometimes seems to be a foreign term to the entire squad at stretches in many games. The comparison with Joey Garcia of UOS is probably apt. But I think Cory is stronger to the hoop; while Garcia probably did hold an edge on the perimeter. When Cory is playing well, he truly makes his team better. He had a spurt in the B-S game the other night where he took over for a several minutes, making shots, finding open teammates and defending aggressively.

I'll be at both Rhodes games this weekend, Friday against DPU and Sunday versus Centre. We'll see what happens and whether the Lynx build off of their Tuesday night win.

frank_ezelle · January 10, 2008, 09:17:15 AM

SCAC games this weekend:

Jan. 11
8:00 PM Hendrix Austin
8:00 PM Centre Birmingham Southern
8:00 PM DePauw Rhodes
10:00 PM Millsaps Colorado Col.
Jan. 12
6:00 PM Southwestern (Tex.) Trinity (Tex.)
8:00 PM Hendrix Colorado Col.
8:00 PM Oglethorpe Sewanee
Jan. 13
3:00 PM DePauw Birmingham Southern
4:00 PM Millsaps Austin
4:00 PM Centre Rhodes

Three of the top four preseason picks are on the road this weekend. Do you think these 3 teams will go 6-0 for the weekend or will one slip up? It looks like the only internet coverage this weekend will be live stats out of BSC and the radio broadcast from DePauw. Speaking of live stats, the SID at Millsaps told me that doing live stats at the Millsaps game would be no problem except that the wireless signal on campus is sporatic inside the gym. Hopefully they'll get that problem solved some day.

daBulls · January 10, 2008, 11:33:59 AM

I was around the league in the mid to late 90's, and I have seen it a bunch over the last five to six years. The two Millsaps teams in the mid 90's were the best this league has seen. They had a combination of size, depth, and athleticism that has not been matched. The 94-95 team lost to UW-Stevens Point (I believe, whatever UW satelite school that was coached by Bo Ryan) in the round of 16 in a pretty close game. UW-Stevens Point went on the easily win the national title. Don Proctor (a juco transfer, so he didn't put up the career totals) was the best all around player in league history. John Garber was a 6'9, very strong, very athletic center who would have manhandled Devins. Johnny Brunini and Peter Murray would be a toss up. Phillip Robinson was one of the most prolific scorers ever to play in the league. Millsaps point guard and Trinity's point guard was a tossup. Brad Price and Zac Wallace did not even start for that team and they were both 1,000 point scorers. The difference between those two teams is Millsaps athleticism.

I too live in Memphis and have seen numerous Rhodes games over the past five years. Coach Hilgeman is a great coach who won 20 games almost every year up to the late 90's. My guess is that he is not doing anything different. I would guess that the school has changed making it tougher for him to get the quality depth needed to compete in the SCAC. Cory Smith is a great scorer. I don't see to many games where he has only 5 or 6 points. Mayber 10 or 12 and then bust out with 25 or 30. He is a great defender when he wants to be. I do agree that he and Garcia have somewhat similiar styles, but I think that Smith may be a little more unselfish. Rhodes has two very good wing players in him and Jared Hoskins. I see their main problem being the post. They do not have a dominate post player that can get them easy buckets, get the big rebound, and defend the Stephen Schotts, Edrick Montgomerys, and Andrew Kings of the league. I do believe that Rhodes has some very good young talent on the roster and they have gotten better since last year. Next year I would hope they would continue to improve.

pbrooks3 · January 10, 2008, 12:38:38 PM

Iagree with DaBulls' assessment of Cory Smith; he's really unselfish and retiring by nature. He's one of the best athletes in the SCAC. He's got a solid pedigree and good coaching through high school (Bartlett) and at Rhodes. Rhodes will be a threat still this year if one of their young bigs steps up to play defense, rebound and make an occasion layout or put-back.

Ralph Turner · January 10, 2008, 01:52:32 PM

daBulls,
Yes, Millsaps lost in the Sweet 16 to the UW-Platteville team that won it 1995. The UW-Platteville back-to-back was in the '98 and the '99 playoffs.

1995 Playoffs

Dave84 · January 10, 2008, 01:53:50 PM

on the Churchwell topic, i'm not saying that he wasn't a great player. In fact, I strongly support his placement on the 15th anniversary team. But I think we all can agree that the style of play that Olgethorpe has played in the past has been "statistic friendly." The faster paced the game is, the more opportunity for statistics, am I correct? I truly believe that if he had played on that Trinity team, he would have had the same numbers as all the other players on that team, mediocre. Not taking anything away from what he accomplished, because you have to be a tremendous player to achieve such. Coach Cunningham at Trinity will rarely (if ever) have a player lead the conference in scoring and rebounding. He likes to have deep teams and play his starters between 20-25 minutes per game. If you actually factor in stats/minute for both players they come out very close to dead even for the '04-05 season. That's just the way Cunningham runs his program and the reason why we probably won't see another Trinity POY (since '00 Mason) for a long time.

DaBulls - I don't see how you can overlook the '05-06 Trinity team as potentially the best team in the history of SCAC. 1 loss to a D1 (which turned out to be a fairly competitive game with a Texas A&M team that went deep in the NIT and had a 1st round draft choice that year (Antoine Wright) and a 1st round 2 years later (Acie Law), 2 losses to Div. 2 team that Trinity led both by 20+ at halftime but choked in closing minutes, and 3 conference losses (1 to southwestern, and 2 on a road trip where starting PG Stroberg "The General" of the team did not play due to injury) and the deepest any team has been in the SCAC at the elite-8 against the eventual back to back National Champ (UWSP - who won their final four games by around 20+ each) - who trinity lost to by 6 on a night where they shot the worst of their season in a hostile UWSP home court gym. Also, has there been any other team in the conference to make it to 4 straight NCAA tournaments? That's an accomplishment worth noting and discussing.

Now, I can't compare this team to teams from the 90's but I would have to say this makes a great argument. I know less about DePauw, but i would say that the DePauw team that went deep into the tourney was also one to consider (Ringer, Bettis, Nixon, Howland, etc.). That was a very good team!!

frank_ezelle · January 10, 2008, 03:47:07 PM

Quote from: frank_ezelle on January 10, 2008, 09:17:15 AM
SCAC games this weekend:

Jan. 11
8:00 PM Hendrix Austin
8:00 PM Centre Birmingham Southern
8:00 PM DePauw Rhodes
10:00 PM Millsaps Colorado Col.
Jan. 12
6:00 PM Southwestern (Tex.) Trinity (Tex.)
8:00 PM Hendrix Colorado Col.
8:00 PM Oglethorpe Sewanee
Jan. 13
3:00 PM DePauw Birmingham Southern
4:00 PM Millsaps Austin
4:00 PM Centre Rhodes

Three of the top four preseason picks are on the road this weekend. Do you think these 3 teams will go 6-0 for the weekend or will one slip up? It looks like the only internet coverage this weekend will be live stats out of BSC and the radio broadcast from DePauw. Speaking of live stats, the SID at Millsaps told me that doing live stats at the Millsaps game would be no problem except that the wireless signal on campus is sporatic inside the gym. Hopefully they'll get that problem solved some day.

While it doesn't show on the SCAC Scoreboard page, it looks like Colorado College has streaming video of their basketball games along with live stats. Here's the link to their Men's Basketball page:

http://www.coloradocollege.edu/Athletics/varsity_sports/MBasketball/

george_banks · January 10, 2008, 07:10:02 PM

I'm new to the board, and the only reason that I am posting at all is to throw out my two cents on the whole Devins debate. I played with Sean and would have to say that Sean was most definitely a D1 basketball player with the determination of a fourth chair tuba player in the High School band. He just "kind-of" liked basketball, that is until he was out of school for some time. That being said, when he wanted to, he could take a game over pretty easily, and to be quite honest, he never really had much respect for a lot of the SCAC teams that he played against. He certainly was an interesting player.

I did hear he worked out last summer with a bunch of NBDL league bigs and actually held more than his own and worked pretty hard. Almost got a deal overseas but was too late into the summer to get any legit looks.

Trinity has actually surprised me more than I thought they would this year, and I dont think I could have more respect for the Millsaps team (minus Wise). Rogan is one of the most mature players I've ever played against and I was sorry to hear about his fall in the game last weekend, I hope he's ok.

Most of the games this weekend look somewhat one sided, I would like to keep an eye on the OU Sewanee game though.