MBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[pbrooks3]

I"m looking forward to seeing King play this weekend.  I'll have an opinion on him and whether he's POY material.
Things in his favor - scoring & rebounding with a team that has improved.  Weakness - poor shooter for a post player.

[FlightofthePetrel]

For those of you who are interested, the Oglethorpe/Millsaps games on Friday night at 6 and 8 p.m. CST will have live audio courtesy of OU.  Brick Faucette and Brett Wise will handle play-by-play.  Attached is the link.

http://www.oglethorpe.edu/athletics/listen_live.asp

Brett didn't make the trip,  I'll be doing my best at the one man play-by-play.  Looking forward to a great game.

Frank, I'm sure I'll see you there taking pictures.  Stop by the table and say hi if you get a chance.

[Gus Sinski]

 More of my feelings re: Player of the Year and the selection process...

We've established the inclination to give the award to a player that also plays on a successful team. That seems to be the accepted method, and it seems to sit well with folks.

But here's a question: Why penalize a player that is clearly superior to most of his competitors simply because of his choice of school?

I'll use Russ Churchwell as an example (I swear I do not have a man-crush on the guy, even though this is like the seventh post in which I've evoked his name.) You can argue that based on his numbers and sheer talent that Churchwell should have been given a POTY award at some point in his career. You can also argue - as many have - that Oglethorpe's lack of success during his tenure justifiably precluded him from picking up the hardware.

But in what way is that the fault of the player? Why bar a clearly superior athlete from being in the running for an award because he plays for a bottom-teir team? The reasons for a team slogging through mediocrity are veried and multifaceted, ranging from coaching to recruiting to academics to attitudes to even recreational drug use.

A popular phrase in the basketball world is "the best players make those around them play better." Too true. But at some point, there's only so much said player can do. You can't patch a levee breach with bubblegum, and quite frankly, Oglethorpe struggled through some lean years without much talent and help.

Not often does a top-tier talent land at a bottom-tier program. But it does happen from time to time, and in the case of Andrew King, sometimes the arrival actually elevates the program. But even if it doesn't, why force the player to climb a bigger hill and push a bigger boulder simply because he chose a less successful program? It's not his fault that the team isn't in the top three, nor is it his fault if the players around him cannot compete on the college level.

Am I saying that Andrew King is far and away the POTY and any award to the contrary is a swindle along the lines of the OJ verdict? Lord no. There are a few young men at Millsaps and Centre who may beg to argue.

But I don't believe that King should have to do even more heavy lifting than the other POTY candidates just because he plays at Hendrix. While he's not necessarily in a Neal Power situation, I do believe King could produce slightly lesser numbers were he at a Trinity or Millsaps and actually have more support for POTY. And that's not necessarily logical.

[Forgive the over-longness of the preceeding. Boredom + Starbucks = what you just read.]

[frank_ezelle]

Before we slice, dice and puree this subject to death, we might want to wait and see how the season plays out.  Hendrix is 3-2 in the conference with a reasonable chance to go to 5-2 this weekend.  After that they have 4 SCAC games where they will have a decent chance to win (Rhodes, Austin, Colorado and Southwestern) and 4 SCAC games where they can open some eyes with an upset (DePauw, Centre, Trinity and Millsaps).  As the season unfolds, the thoughts of who will win and who should win will become a little clearer.

I don't think that OU has to break into the top 4 for King to have a good shot at POTY, but it would really help his case if he could help put Hendrix right below them.  And by the way for all the OU fans, I realize that at the moment it is OU in that top 4, not DePauw.  I'm just going by the preseason predictions as the season is playing out.

[pbrooks3]

Condolences to the Rhodes community on the death of David Ramsey, beloved Music Professor, who was the long-time timekeeper at Lynx basketball games in Mallory Gym. David was a wonderful organist who is probably better known through the years as the organist for professional Memphis baseball teams (AAA Memphis Redbirds). His positive demeanor and smiling face will be missed at the scorer's table.

[jekelish]

My weekend forecast:

8:00 PM  Sewanee at  Hendrix       
   8:00 PM  Centre at Austin (Centre wins by 18)   
   8:00 PM  DePauw at  Colorado Col.  (DePauw by 25)
   8:00 PM  Rhodes at  Trinity (Tex.)  (Trinity by 11)
   9:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Southwestern  (BSC by 8)    
   9:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Millsaps  (Millsaps by 15)
Jan. 19  9:00 PM  Rhodes at  Southwestern  (Southwestern by 5)
Jan. 20  2:00 PM  DePauw at  Austin  (DePauw by 8)
   2:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Trinity (Tex.)  (Trinity by 10)   
   3:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Hendrix  (Hendrix by 5)
   4:00 PM  Sewanee at  Millsaps  (Millsaps by 30)
   4:00 PM  Centre at  Colorado Col.  (Centre by 20)

wish i could forecast a couple AC victories, but right now that's just not in the cards.  Centre hammered us twice last year, so tonight's game, despite AC having improved, will still be a tough one.

however, i wouldn't be surprised to see AC keep both games <10 points this weekend, but it all depends on if they can keep their bigs out of foul trouble.  the points from Kola Alade in the backcourt are a given, and Chris Sturtevant will probably give them around 15 and 8 each game, so it's just a matter of how the rest of the team steps up.  potential "unsung heroes" should the 'Roos manage to hang with and potentially upset either Centre or DePauw: guards Marc Nickell and Adam Bishop

still, it's a pretty safe bet that Centre and DePauw will walk out of Hughey Gym with wins this weekend.  AC is getting there, it will just take a bit more time.

[billzeffer]

beans82, i noticed you included peter murray into your discussion about POY.  I thought Peter was a solid contributor on some very good Trinity teams but I don't think he was ever a guy that any of the teams were scared of.  I think playing with Devins helped him tremendously because he would get the second tallest player guarding him and at 6'8 that usually meant he had at least 4 inches to work with.  Morris and Devins were definately POY material, but I think Murray benefited from the system more than anyone else during his tenure.

Since my last upset special turned out to be a laugher in the wrong direction I think the Millsaps fans will thank me again because I'm going to go Ogelthorpe by 2 on the road in their Friday night matchup 

[Dave84]

Gus, good players on bad teams get all the credit they deserve.  that's why there are all-conference teams and player of the week honors.  no one is saying that because a really good player chooses to go to a poor program they are getting "shafted" on recognition.  Russ Churchwell made the 15 year anniversary team!!! that's a terrific honor.  POY has a direct correlation with team success, I'm sure King will find his way on 1st team all-conference if he doesn't end up winning POY.  how is that penalizing him in any way?  With that rationale, the actual person being penalized would be the Reggie Mags, Aaron Bowsers, Quinten Masons, for putting up good numbers and making their good teams win conferences, but getting passed up on POY voting because they didn't play on a worse team and put up all-american statistics.  I have known players/coaches who don't think lower-rung team's players should even be on any of the all-conference teams, but obviously a larger majority believe otherwise (and i totally agree with the majority).  This argument makes this season all the more interesting for me!

[spfan22]

How was Magnusson and Bowers penalized.. They actually won player of the year.. Bowers in 04-05 and Magnusson in 05-06.. maybe I'm not understanding exactly what your argument is??

[Dave84]

i'm sorry, i was referring to Gus' situation of IF players with superior stats but on a poor performing team won the POY award over players with slightly lesser stats but on conference championship contending teams.  It would be penalizing the players who are good players, make their teammates better (hence therefore their team is better), but have lower stats than his afformentioned "penalized" players. 

[daBulls]

BillZeffer, I believe you have it wrong.  It was Devins who benefited from Peter Murray's physical presence.  Peter Murray was the most underated player on that team.  If you put him on any other team during that time and he puts up MVP numbers.  Murray is what Johnny Brunini was to the great Millsaps teams of the mid 90's.

[jekelish]

AC leads Centre 16-10 with 9:50 left in the first and Kola Alade about to shoot a free throw coming out of a CC timeout.

[pbrooks3]

Halftime score from Conway:
Hendrix 44 Sewanee 39; Guard Ben Warner of Hendrix hit a 33' 3-pointer at the buzzer. King and Rose have 9 each with sub Bertrand leading with 11. King has 5 or 6 rebounds. Grizzle and Pursell are leading the Tigers in scoring. 1st time in the new gym - should stack up well to host the tournament, just not as well located centrally to all of the teams.

[jekelish]

19-16 AC leads Centre with 5:49 to play.  It was 19-10, but consecutive threes from Centre have cut the lead down.

[jekelish]

Halftime: Centre 22, AC 21

unforced turnovers and cold shooting down the stretch by the 'Roos allowed Centre to chip away and take the lead.

Sturtevant with 8 and 5 at the half, Alade with 7 points for the 'Roos.  Thomason with 6 points and three boards, and Nestheide with 4 points, 3 assists for Centre.

both teams are struggling with their shots, with Centre hitting just 9-of-25 so far and AC 8-of-24.