MBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[billzeffer]

I have to agree with Dave on this one.  Statistics have and always will be overrated when it comes to looking at a player's overall value to a team.  Just because someone puts up 20 points a game doesn't mean he's making his team any better.  Also, and yes I am a little biased towards Trinity but hear me out, the teammates around you dictate your performance in the "statistical" categories i.e. pts, rebs, assts.  When surrounded by other good players it is difficult to average very high in any one category.  I think 4 Trinity players, Morris, Devins, Burt, and Bates would have won POY honors had they played on teams that weren't as good.  However, it's almost as if they're penalized for playing with good players and having lesser numbers.  I'm certainly not saying that every year the POY should go to a player on the team that finishes first but this should definately be taken into consideration.  I'm also still in shock that Burt and Bates split 2 POY votes back in '05-'06 after Trinity dominated the league that year.  I can understand that one of them didn't win because you figured they would steal each other's votes but to only end up with 2 combined was a little surprising to me.

And congrats to Millsaps this weekend for completely ruining my upset special pick.  It looks like these guys might be for real especially once they get Rogan back on the court.   

[Dave84]

the games this weekend:

8:00 PM  Sewanee at  Hendrix       
   8:00 PM  Centre at Austin  (Centre by 15)    
   8:00 PM  DePauw at  Colorado Col.   (DePauw by 12)   
   8:00 PM  Rhodes at  Trinity (Tex.)   (Trinity by 16)    
   9:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Southwestern (Tex.)  (Birmingham by 5)      
   9:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Millsaps  (Millsaps by 8)    
Jan. 19  9:00 PM  Rhodes at  Southwestern (Tex.)  (Southwestern by 3)   
Jan. 20  2:00 PM  DePauw at  Austin  (DePauw by 15)    
   2:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Trinity (Tex.)   (Trinity by 6)   
   3:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Hendrix  (Hendrix by 2)   
   4:00 PM  Sewanee at  Millsaps   (Millsaps by 12)   
   4:00 PM  Centre at  Colorado Col. (Centre by 15)

anyone else?

[FlightofthePetrel]

I like most of the picks but here are mine.

8:00 PM  Sewanee at  Hendrix    (Hendrix by 4)
   8:00 PM  Centre at Austin    (Centre by 19)
   8:00 PM  DePauw at  Colorado Col.    (Colorado by 2) upset special and Colorado's first win of the season!
   8:00 PM  Rhodes at  Trinity (Tex.)      (Trinity by 12)   9:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Southwestern (Tex.)     (Birmingham by 11)
   9:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Millsaps      (Oglethorpe by 6)  if Millsaps plays same lineup from last weekend if not  (Millsaps by 2)
Jan. 19  9:00 PM  Rhodes at  Southwestern (Tex.)    (Rhodes by 4)
Jan. 20  2:00 PM  DePauw at  Austin       (Depauw by 13)
   2:00 PM  Birmingham Southern at  Trinity (Tex.)    (Trinity by 4)
   3:00 PM  Oglethorpe at  Hendrix      (Oglethorpe by 10)
   4:00 PM  Sewanee at  Millsaps    (Millsaps by 16)
   4:00 PM  Centre at  Colorado Col.    (Centre by 20)

Also you forgot to pick the first game ( Sewanee at Hendrix)

[Ron Boerger]

I am so looking forward to getting back to Austin so I can drive to SA to see some Trinity games (and Southwestern of course is right there).  The BSC game should be a good indicator of where the team is this year. 

[Dave84]

good point, I agree with picking Hendrix in that one by a small margin (I'll go with 2 just so I'm not copying your 4), I also have no idea why it put a smiley face in the place of my actual prediction, haha, so i'll say that face stands for the number 3.

Ron, good to hear you'll be checking out some Trinity games.  It would be great to get your opinion as you get opportunities to see the Tigers play. I've been unable to catch very many games this year.

As for the POY predictions for this year, yes, it's too early, Montgomery looks like he could be a favorite in the way he changes teams' strategies.  Thomas Britt I feel isn't talked about enough because he has developed into a very good player for Centre.  If King can get his team to finish solid in the SCAC (top 3 or 4) then I believe it will hands down go to him. BUT, I just don't see this happening.

I will tell you one of my bigger disappointments so far.  He is still putting up good numbers, but I haven't seen the development that I thought I would have out of Stephen Schott of DePauw.  A few years ago, I would have said that he'd be a nationally recognized post player.  He came in immediately after the Bettis/Ringer era and seemed to have similar qualities early on.  He put up good numbers as an underclassmen, but really hasn't shown me that much more since then.  I'm not saying this based on statistics because if we recall the Jason Morris arguement, his surroundings could have improved over the years.  Watching him the last few years, he just looks to be the same player he was Freshmen and Sophomore seasons.  He's a good guy and I don't mean to pick on him at all, I just expected him to blow up in this league.  Any thoughts? or have I just picked on an undeserving player?

[DPU3619]

I will tell you one of my bigger disappointments so far.  He is still putting up good numbers, but I haven't seen the development that I thought I would have out of Stephen Schott of DePauw. 

Watching him the last few years, he just looks to be the same player he was Freshmen and Sophomore seasons.  He's a good guy and I don't mean to pick on him at all, I just expected him to blow up in this league.  Any thoughts? or have I just picked on an undeserving player?

Naw, I disagree with that. 

It's really tough to be a standout post player in this league right now.  Just about everybody has a great big man.  I kinda knew what we were getting with Schott.  He's not taller than everybody else.  He's not necessarily stronger than everybody else.  But he's a great shooter for a guy his size, particularly with his back to the basket. 

He's third on the team in shot attempts behind Moore and Oilar, and in a related story, he's third in scoring.  Look at how DePauw plays.  They like to get out and run.  They shoot a lot of threes.  Lots of slashing to the basket by the guards.  Meanwhile, the other contenders are playing a more half court style.  I feel like Centre and Millsaps have historically thrown it down in the post a lot more.  It's tough for Schott to get a lot of touches in an offense like that. 

[Ron Boerger]

Ron, good to hear you'll be checking out some Trinity games.  It would be great to get your opinion as you get opportunities to see the Tigers play. I've been unable to catch very many games this year.

If only it were so, first we have to get the house up north of Dallas ready to sell, then we have to sell it, then we have to find a new place around Austin, so I'm hoping to be able to see them come NEXT season.   

[Gus Sinski]

 Here's my argument...

To me, a measure of greatness isn't always kissing the golden chalice. Sometimes, it's simply a matter of your presence making a team go ever further than it could possibly go otherwise.

Exhibit A: Andrew King.

I won't pull any punches. With King, Hendrix is probably middle-of-the-pack at best. They can't stay in with Millsaps, Centre, Trinity. But without King? No offense to Cal Rose, who sometimes can shoot lights out, but they're suddenly fighting to get into the tournament.

By his very presence, King forces - understand, forces - a perennial league doormat into suddenly being competitive. Are his stats partially a reflection of how much he must play and all that he must do? Sure. But rarely can one player so accutely represent the sum of his team's fortunes.

Let's look at some of the names I brought up previously: Mike Howland had Joe Nixon and Joe Ringger. Russ Churchwell had Stan Goldberg. Thomas Adams had Waguespack and that one point guard with the good court vision and springy hair (what was his last name...Ezekiel? Frizelle?  ) Many of the POY's in the past played with guys who also made All-SCAC. Could their teams have gone maybe as far without them? Probably not. But they still would have been in the league's top half.

To me, King fits the bill of a "most valuable player," simply because he means the most to his team. I think it's hard to argue wth that.

Anyhow, that's just my $0.02.

[frank_ezelle]

Gus, based on the little smiley icon, I figure you know that the long haired point guard was my nephew Travis.  The hair obviously attracted its fair share of comments from the student sections when Millsaps was on the road.  The one I liked best was when the DePauw students were yelling at him to get off the court because the girls had played at 6. 

[Dave84]

let's hypothetically say that Stephen Schott were on Hendrix's team and he got as many shots as he wanted.  Schott would have the exact same numbers.  YES, King is a good player in this league, is he the best? i can't say that.

Wes, I agree with everything you say, and that's why I referenced to the Jason Morris argument (style of play, surrounding teammates), BUT watching Schott progress, he has seemed like the same player.  DePauw has always run with the ball, and they've always had good players.  I was saying that I was disappointed because I really thought he was on pace for a Bettis and Ringer type career.  He's been good, don't get me wrong, but I thought he'd turn out to be the primary focus of the team as well as a nationally honored player.  I'm not talking about his current performance, I'm talking about his progression.

[DPU3619]

And so was I.  Those things we both listed prevent you from becoming a dominant 5.  FYI - Bettis was a 15 & 8 guy.  Schott in his career is roughly a 14 & 7 guy. 

Now if you meant that he was going to turn into Joe Ringger, that's different.  I didn't see much chance of a similar career between those two.  They are listed within 5 pounds of each other, but I can assure you that Ringger was much stronger and heavier in the middle.  A completely different style player in what was a different style of offense at the time.

[Gus Sinski]

 Frank: To my knowledge, Travis was never heckled in Conway. Mainly because given the makeup of the Hendrix student body during my time there, making fun of any player's hairstyle would have been hypocrisy of the highest order.

Dave: I disagree, based on King's numbers last year. King had an outstanding sophomore season, and that was with scoring help from Matt Secrease and Michael Bennett. You can argue that King's point totals this year are a result of being fed the ball constantly, but that doesn't explain his equally-effective rebounding totals. Plus, given that the rest of the Warriors' starting five has been inconsistent in its scoring, one can argue that King has had a tougher time scoring as a junior since he's now the focal point of the defense (teams couldn't really sag down with Secrease out there.) Also, keep in mind that compared to some SCAC pivots, King is actually somewhat undersized against his defenders.

[Major_Fan]

If Andrew King is such a beast and should be Player of the Year, why after an outstanding weekend was he not even nominated by his peers as Player of the Week after averaging 20 pts, 15 rbs? 

[spfan22]

Major Fan:

By peers.. do u mean other players?? As i understand it, the coaches nominate a player for player of the week.. not other players

[hendrixfan]

It is a shame when a player puts up outstanding numbers but does not get proper consideration because he/she plays on a team that does not finish well. 

Having said that, if two players have similar numbers, the player on the better team deserves the award.