MBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[pbrooks3]

Thanks for the reminder about this, d3allstar.  Its wonderful that Southwestern has agreed to do this and keep SCAC hoop fans everywhere plugged in.

[spfan22]

I just want to say that Moore, Britt, and Montgomery are all deserving of the POY award.. picking one over the other is almost a shame.. having played against all 3.. i feel like Montgomery effects the game a little more than the other two.. only because of his defense and ability to change so many shots underneath the basket.. moore has been great this year.. he puts up numbers like steve nash.. i dont think u can knock him for turning the ball over when he gets so many assists and handles the ball so much.. nobody critcizes nash for turning the ball over 3-4 times a game.. and i know NBA is different than D3.. but i do think u can draw a little comparison there.. but to be honest.. im baseing my opinion on what i think the coaches will decide.. Britt is probably the front runner.. being on the best team helps.. his stats are pretty good and he's very efficient..(numbers almost identical to mine last year.. but we obviously were not the best team.. haha) plus the three he hit against millsaps gives him that defining moment that POY's are remembered for.. it may come down to who wins the rematch when centre visits depauw.. at least i think they play again.. like i said.. all 3 are very deserving of the award and I'll feel bad for whoever doesnt win the award.

[DPU3619]

The kind of player that will put his body on the line, and put everything on the court.  Doesn't have too many poor performances because he plays within his means at all times.  

One final comment and I'll leave this alone.  If that's all it takes to win POTY, then Todd Humerickhouse should have won it all four years he was at DePauw with his 2.3 points and 5.0 rebounds because he was scrappy.  He dove around on the ground and hustled.  Blue collar guy with elbow pads and knee pads.  Fits your definition of what makes a player a POTY candidate, doesn't it?  No poor perfomances.  Shot the ball well.  Good rebounder.  By the book fundamentals.  Gives you the same thing every night...etc etc.  What's the difference?  The actual stats, right?

[pbrooks3]

spfan22, given that you played all of these guys last year, what's your take on this year's Centre team compared to the one you played your senior year?  It's uncanny that yours and Britt's stats are so similar. This sort of leans toward Wes' theory on stats and stats tied to a highly successful team.

[spfan22]

pbrooks3.. I think Centre is very comparable to last year's squad.. obviously they miss that dominant defensive presence that they had last year with Patterson.. but they are a year older and they have legitimate scorers and it seems like a different player steps up every night.. whether its Britt, Nestheide, Thomason, or Knoll.. Centre has always been a great defensive team.. to me trinity and centre play the best team defense.. I think Centre can do some damage, but as seen against Millsaps if they run into a good post player they could be in a little trouble.. but for some reason.. over the last few years they always seem to pull out close games and thats the staple of a great team.. they have great coaching and experience that gives them a chance in any game against any opponent.. I think they have a great chance to repeat what they did last year.. possibly even a little better even if they don't win the SCAC tourney..

On the POY award.. in my opinion based on how POY has been voted on in recent years.. the winner of the award might not have the best stats.. but a player that plays on a serious title contender.. on a team that finishes towards the top 3 or 4 of the conference.. stats play a role.. but that obviously is not the only factor.. team success, intangibles, leadership and other little things are taken into consideration.. these coaches are smart.. for the most part i trust their judgement when it comes to the voting.

and yes.. isnt it scary how similar those stats are between Britt and I.

[DPU3619]

I'm not trying to come off as some kind of know-it-all jerk here, but it's got be a sum of a lot of things.  It can't just be the numbers.  And it can't just be the "feel" stuff (like "I like him because he's clutch" or "he doesn't turn it over" or "he's grittty and scrappy" or "he plays the game the right way").  Those things alone and a dollar won't get you much more than a Sunday paper.

The coaches aren't likely to collectively pick a guy like Andrew King from Hendrix, who while having a great year (half a point per game away from leading in scoring and rebounding), is doing so on a team out of contention.  They may not even give it to Montgomery, who can be as dominant as it gets but, as Frank says, he's got an on/off switch that occassionally flips one way or the other depending on when you catch him.  They may not give it to Mike Moore because he does turn it over a lot despite his exceptional numbers.  They may not give it to Britt because, frankly, his numbers just aren't like the three 3 I've mentioned above. 

Each coach (and fan, as we've come to find) has their own theory on what qualifies a player to be the POTY, and that's why the voting hasn't been unanimous in over five years. 

[frank_ezelle]

Just a point to make about Edrick Montgomery and his numbers for the season.  It needs to be pointed out that when Edrick's numbers were down in the first half of the season, some of that was because of the outstanding play by Rodney Rogan prior to his injury in the Trinity game.  Edrick's numbers have gone up considerably when they were needed, with Rogan out of the lineup and now with Rogan playing and working his way back to his early season form. 

We get back to the point about those who have outstanding teammates often see their stats go down because the points and rebounds are being shared by many.  Maybe the one thing all of this POTY talk points out is just how difficult it is to determine who should be the POTY.  We should probably all keep that in mind when the POTY is actually announced since we have clearly demonstrated that the coaches can make no choice that will bring universal agreement.

[pbrooks3]

Amen to Frank's comments.  The coaches ain't going to make everyone happy!

[spfan22]

Wes, I agree with your comments.. a guy like Andrew king who is a good player with good stats will not win.. coaches will not collectively vote for a player whose team is simply average..

Frank and Pbrooks3, I also agree that the coaches will not make everyone happy.. there will always be those 2 or 3 other candidates each year that couild have very easily won the award.. but just dont get the votes for one reason or another.. there are still a few weekends left on the schedule where these players could get stronger or possibly falter.. we'll see what happens.. im guessing the voting will be extremely close between Moore, Britt, and Montgomery.. heck ya never know.. caoches have alot of respect for Nestheide's game..  his numbers arent as good as a year ago but thats because he demands so much more attention.. and maybe thats why Britt has had such a great season..i would never count him out of the running either

Im not gonna lie.. how bout OU.. i was very confident that they might win 13 or 14 again.. but i defintely didnt see a 8-2 conference start.. I hope they continue to get better.. confidence for a young group like that has been a key to some of their success.. the positive attitude of the players has been a key in an improved year as well.. keep it up guys

[Dave84]

haha, dead on the money wes.  britt's consistency = Humerickhouse's consistency, exactly what i was going for, haha.


in this league I have always felt that when voting for the POY coaches have really looked at a number of things.  1) obviously team success, whether or not they have helped put their team in contention, 2) obviously statistics, and 3) how that particular player faired against their own team.  This is where consistency comes into play.  and not the consistency you're thinking wes (2 ppg, 5 rbg).  the consistant 15+ points ppg and solid defense that is always going to keep his team in the position to win a basketball game.

[Dave84]

also, coaches really do look at whether or not they even like the player themselves as sportsman.  luckily, there are no players in contention this year that I would say are "hated" by most coaches (bad attitude, unsportsman like) but I do feel that coaches have taken this into account when voting in the past.  i'm sure everyone will argue that it shouldn't matter, but I feel it does.

[pbrooks3]

Spfan22, agree this one is too close to call. Nestheide probably isn't seriously in the running, but he, too, is valuable to his team similar to Mike Moore and DePauw. You're right on in your comments about the attention he commands from other teams. His numbers don't stick out like Moore's.

Andrew King has been a consistent performer, but I would give Montgomery the nod as far as the post play goes.

[spfan22]

haha.. dave84 its funny that you say that about whether or not the coaches like the player or not.. that is actually so true.. I thought that was always the case with Dickinson from OU.. great player especially his sophomore and junior year.. but coaches hated or should i say disliked him.. they either thought he was dirty or that he flopped alot.. or sometimes even both.. and he probably never quite got what he deserved as a player because of his antics on the court.. and im sure there are other players who have been disliked by other coaches.. just noting Dickinson as a case since I actually saw and heard sometimes during the games what other coaches would say about him..

and Pbrooks i would probably agree that Nestheide is out of the running.. but with a strong finish to the year ya never know.. and I'm definitely giving the nod to Montgomery over King as far as post players are concerned.. i dont think King has much of a shot at POY

[Dave84]

i wasn't going to name anyone, but yea, he definitely was discriminated because of his style of play.  i never really thought he had a terrible attitude, but he definitely was involved in some sketchy plays, etc.  I believe this cost him a lot of recognition, coaches didn't like him as a sportsman.

and hats off to nestheide, he has taken a role on this team that is essential.  if you notice, he's averaging just as many assists per game in conference as Moore....that's impressive!  He is simply a gamer who knows basketball.  i've always had a great deal of respect for this guy, even playing against him.

[frank_ezelle]

Edrick Montgomery made the D3hoops Team of the Week for the second straight week.  Here's the blurb on Edrick's performance:

"Montgomery continued his dominance on the court at home this weekend, averaging 30.5 points, 14 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks in a sweep of Rhodes and Birmingham-Southern. He knocked down a career-high 11-of-12 attempts from the free throw line en route to 31 points and 15 boards in the 93-72 win over Rhodes, and hit 6-of-7 from the stripe en route to 30 points and 13 boards in an overtime win against the Panthers."

Link:  http://www.d3hoops.com/tow/index.html