MBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[OLD STUDENT/ATHLETE]

I'm biased, but I think Britt should be a clear choice for POTY. I don't believe there has been a player in league history to finish first in % shooting for FG,FT, and 3Pt, which he leads in but still hasn't done with games left. Sure he doesn't pass as much as Moore or have as many steals, but with a pt. guard like Nesthide, he doesn't have to. I know without him, Centre would have 3-4 more losses. Moore is a great point guard, and is as equally valuable to his team as Britt and King. There are also intangibles such as senior leadership which are hard to measure, but those of you who have seen Britt play this year should have noticed his coaching and leadership qualities on the floor and on the bench. 

[frank_ezelle]

I don't think you can have a discussion about POTY without including Edrick Montgomery.  Being on a team with a lot of talented players, his numbers aren't where they were last year, but he has produced when needed--the big numbers on the road trip where Rodney Rogan was out, the huge effort to give Millsaps a chance on the road trip to Centre and DePauw, the big numbers the following weekend when he made the D3 team of the week for the 2nd week in a row.

We have discussed this subject over and over and certainly there are several worthy candidates.  I would be disappointed to have Edrick lose for the second year in a row when he has played so well over that two year stretch.  Just remember that Britt's 3-pointer that tied the Millsaps-Centre game was only a big shot because Millsaps had the lead, thanks in large part to a monster game by Edrick Montgomery.

[pbrooks3]

OLD STUDENT / ATHLETE makes valid points.  Actually the thing I really like about Thomas Britt is his ability to guard on defense. He generally gets the stopper's role against the opponent's best 1 or 2 and sometimes 3. Frequently he is giving away size in defending. What tenacity!

[FlightofthePetrel]

I'd like to throw my 2 cents in to the discussion.

I've seen every player mentioned in the POTY race (Moore, King, Montgomery, Britt) and I would rank them in this order for the following reasons.

Montgomery- I think he effects the game more than anyone on this list... even though he plays with a ton of talent around him.  He puts up points, grabs rebounds and alters shots.

Britt- This kid posesses just about as much lead by example that I've seen in a while.  He's lightning quick yet plays under control, doesn't take bad shots (obviously check out the #'s) and does all the small things a team needs to win.

Moore- This is Moore's award to win... NEXT year.  He's the sparkplug that makes this team go.  For the past 2 years Coach Fenlon hasn't needed him to do anything but run the team with the supporting cast he's had.  Now that he needs him to score he scores- and leads the conference in assists.

King-  He is the one I'm least impressed with on the list.  King seems lethargic and unmotivated.  Yeah he puts up big numbers in the points and rebound category but I couldn't tell you why- maybe he's just in the right place at the right time.

Anyways those are just my thoughts on it.  Any of the top 3 could win it... kinda like the Heisman this year.

[pbrooks3]

I reopened this can of worms so I guess it deserves my assessment.

I've seen everyone play this year except Montgomery so I have to rely on Frank and others to expand the case for Montgomery in my mind. I know whenever I think of Millsaps my first thoughts are of Edrick Montgomery and how is Centre going to match up with him (and the answer to the latter is Centre can't!). I believe this is a statement in itself of what kind of great player he is and how valuable he is to his team - remember I did see him play several times last season. Big men probably get cheated a lot when it comes to the POTY award because they generally touch the ball less on the offensive end.
Help sell me Frank!

Moving on - King is solid, generally consistent and less flashy in the post than Edrick. Still of great value to his team despite not having superior athletic attributes. Rather than POTY for this season, I'd say he's the most improved from his sophomore campaign - better shooter and defender, less apt to make silly turnovers. He's going to be a serious POTY candidate for 2008-09.

On to the guards - Thomas Britt has had an absolutely dream year for a team playing at the top of their game most nights with plenty of guts. His statistics are tremendous.  But that's not what Britt is about. He's a winner and a team guy that's putting in a full effort every time out. Until his senior year, he was recognized more for his intangibles on the court. Honestly, he likely cares a whole lot less about POTY than an NCAA3 championship. My true belief is that he and Matt Nestheside collectively deserve this year's award, but that's not possible. These two seniors together are what make Centre the team they are. If you combined their stat lines and other attributes, they would be the POTY in my estimation.

Now to Mike Moore, as far as what one single player means to his team , he's the POTY for this season. Now if he blows a gasket in his performances in the final two regular season games, I reserve the right to change my opinion.  His numbers speak for themselves. Without him, DePauw might have been a very average team rather than 18-5 and fighting for a D3 tournament bid.  

That's the way I see it. I'm sure that this will stir up some differing opinions!

[DPU3619]

I know without him, Centre would have 3-4 more losses. Moore is a great point guard, and is as equally valuable to his team as Britt and King. There are also intangibles such as senior leadership which are hard to measure, but those of you who have seen Britt play this year should have noticed his coaching and leadership qualities on the floor and on the bench. 

This is where I start getting really frustrated with this discussion.  Everybody talks about Britt being a great leader and a great person and a super neato cool dude and he's scrappy and gritty and hustles and is always in the right place and all this other intangible, unmeasurable mumbo-jumbo.  It's a fair argument and certainly worthy of some level of discussion, but are you telling me Moore doesn't do that?  Are you telling me King doesn't do that?  Are you telling me Montgomery doesn't do that?  If the answer is yes, are you sure? Does seeing each player once time this year (or even better, zero times) completely make up your mind that they don't do that?  I think Moore's a great leader.  The Centre guys think Britt's a great leader.  Frank thinks Edrick's a great leader and the Hendrix fan base think King's a leader.  It appears we're at a stalemate.

You can't say that one guy should win it for reasons that the other players may have on their resume as well.  I think Montgomery is an especially great leader for his group.  Just because he doesn't drop 18 & 12 on Night X has no bearing on that.  I think Moore does a fine job as the general and the vocal leader on the floor for his team, as well.  What about the way Britt does it makes him better than the other candidates? 

I've never said that Britt shouldn't win this award.  But, I'm still waiting for somebody to prove to me that he has some quality that others definitively lack before I anoint him.  Shooting the ball well is a start, but when the other candidates have attempted 80, 90, and 100 attempts MORE than Britt (Moore, Montgomery, and King respectively), how much does that count?  Heck, King and Moore shoot great percentages, too.  And they've attempted way more FG's.  Britt plays great defense.  Also a fair point.  Moore has more steals.  Montgomery's second in the league in blocks.  Does anybody see my point here?

[frank_ezelle]

I've hesitated to join in the discussion because singing the praises of a specific player seems to do two things:  (1) By saying one person deserves the POTY, some will take that as being negative about their candidate.  (2) By talking about how valuable a person is to his team, it can sound a little demeaning to that player's teammates.

Let me just say about Edrick that it would be hard to think of a player being more valuable to his team than Edrick.  Most of you know that Millsaps isn't a very big team with Edrick being listed at 6'6", Rodney Rogan at 6'5", and Chris Sanders at 6'4", and the rest of the main players are guards.  That's one of the reasons Millsaps is being outrebounded by 2 per game--think what it would be like without Edrick's 9 per game.  In addition, Edrick is counted on heavily for defense in the middle, going against bigger players and knowing that he can't afford to get in foul trouble.

Also, keep in mind what happen when Rodney Rogan was injured in the Trinity game.  Prior to that injury, Rodney was playing well enough to be a POTY candidate.  After the injury, Edrick has really stepped up his game with some much needed performances:

Colorado College--28 points, 13 rebounds
Austin--22 points, 15 rebounds
Centre--34 points, 13 rebounds
DePauw--22 points, 9 rebounds
Rhodes--31 points, 15 rebounds
Birmingham--30 points, 13 rebounds
Austin--21 points, 12 rebounds
Southwestern--17 points, 9 rebounds

He has played well enough to be named to the D3 National team of the week twice.  He has led Millsaps, now a 21-3 team, in scoring in 10 of their 24 games (and 9 of their last 14) and in rebounding in 16 of those games.  As I said earlier, it is hard to imagine that there is another player who means more to their team and this is a team that could very easily be in the top 5 like Centre if this had been the year for Centre and DePauw to travel to Jackson.

In addition, and who knows if anyone will factor this into their thinking, maybe there should be some consideration for long term excellence in the league:

--Edrick came in as a sophomore and averaged 15.8 ppg and 8.4 rpg, 8th and 2nd in the SCAC.
--As a junior he averaged 17.1 ppg and 9.8 rpg, 2nd and tied for 1st in the SCAC.  Many people felt it was enough for POTY but Centre was 24-5 and Millsaps was 18-9.
--This year Edrick is averaging 15.9 ppg and 9.1 rpg, 6th and 3rd in the SCAC.

For three years Edrick has been near the top of the league in the two main areas that you look for in a center, scoring and rebounding.  While the award is "Player of the YEAR", maybe there should be some consideration for a player who has been such a factor for 3 straight years.

Pbrooks3, that's my attempt to try and sell you on Edrick.  I know that others here can make a strong case for their favorites, but this is just my argument in favor or Edrick and I don't plan on debating his pros and cons against the other players in the running.  Ultimately it won't matter what we all think; it will be what the 12 SCAC coaches think.  It won't be an easy decision.

[OLD STUDENT/ATHLETE]

Just came back from watching a tremendous HS game in Louisville, and finished watching the Ky.-Ga. game on ESPN, and to no surprise when I checked the board, everyone was still talking about POTY. Everyone, including me, gets emotional about this award, because after watching your candidate play for 3-4 years, you feel like they're a member of your family, at least I do. Montgomery, Britt, Moore, and King would be a great addition to anyone's family. I don't think the coaches decision on POTY should upset anyone, because a valid argument can be made for each of the four. However, if I was going to rank them, it would be Britt, Montgomery, King, and Moore, and Moore 4th only because next year probably will be his year. We're very lucky in the SCAC to have such great young men!!!

[pbrooks3]

Wes, Frank and others, I ultimately chose Mike Moore because I think he individually brought more value to his team.  Another way of saying this is he contributed in more different ways to making his team better.  As OLD STUDENT/ATHLETE noted, all of these guys are deserving, and each of us has an opinion.  I'll end it at that. 

OS/A, what high school game did you take in?

[OLD STUDENT/ATHLETE]

Confidential! 2 D-III recruits there!!

[pbrooks3]

Ok Western Division bloggers, help figure things out for the 3rd and 4th seeds now that Hendrix has lost. There's a good chance three teams fighting for these slots could all end up 6-9. If Hendrix loses to Millsaps, Southwestern wins at CC, but loses at Austin, and Austin loses to Trinity than we have this scenario. Frank, sort this out for me so I don't have to go back to review earlier games.

Got a response from the SCAC office on the tiebreaker if the following occurs:

Trinity defeats Austin College
Southwestern defeats Colorado College
Millsaps defeats Hendrix
Austin College def. Southwestern

1 - Best record in head-to-head competition between the tied teams.

All teams are 1-1 against the other

2 - Divisional record.

Hendrix would be 5-5 in the West; Southwestern would be 4-6 as would Austin College

therefore, Hendrix would get the No.3 seed

now to break the Austin College/Southwestern tie:

3 - Divisional record against top teams in descending order.

Both went 0-2 against Millsaps
Both went 0-2 against Trinity
Both went 1-1 against Hendrix
Both went 2-0 against Colorado College

4 - Cross-divisional record.

Both went 2-3 against the East (don't count Birmingham Southern games)

5 - Cross-divisional record against top teams in descending order.

Both went 0-1 against Centre, DePauw and Oglethorpe
Both went 1-0 against Rhodes and Sewanee

Therefore, you are left with No. 6 to break the tie

6 - Coin flip.

Amazing if it all comes down to this!

[JJFlash]

Can anybody tell me if Austin College does LiveStats?

[pbrooks3]

Can anybody tell me if Austin College does LiveStats?

I don't think so.

[d3allstar]

i should be able to post 5 or 6 updates from the southwestern games this weekend if anyone is interested...

[Ralph Turner]

i should be able to post 5 or 6 updates from the southwestern games this weekend if anyone is interested...

Yes, please do.