FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[frank uible]

amh63: Lahr was an NFL All-Pro several years with the Browns and led the league in interceptions for 1950, one the years the Browns were world champions. He also served as the Browns' third QB and returned punts and kickoffs.

[PolarCat]

Regarding the selection of schools in the NESCAC  from yesterday's conversations on this board. I must say that I was surprised he chose Colby over over all the others but he knew right away that Colby was the school for him. It is the least like where he grew up of all the rest was likely a factor. He is now in the mix on the field as an FY and feels like he'll is apart of rebuilding or building a winning football program. My son also considered and was recruited by Case Western and  WC,TU, TC,and BC in the NESCAC. He knows very good football players that were cut at Trinity after being recruited and told they'd have a role.  SAD Situation for guys playing their last years of football who are fantastic students and young men in my view. We only really considered the NESCAC schools and had no interest in even discussing his only D1 opportunity at Holy Cross. If he is happy, so am I.  They'll compete, get better and BTW I don't believe they are horrible. I expect them to prove that assertion on the field.  I predict wins at Bates, Hamilton, and Bowdoin and a few close ones that no one expects based on my research.  This is my last post until the end of the season. Lets see how i do. TTYL #BTP

First, I am delighted your son has a chance to contribute as a FY, and that he feels he is part of something big.  And my heart goes out to those Trinity recruits.  For better or for worse, I think Trinity may be the only place in the CAC that recruits so heavily, then has to cut some of those recruits.

But as for your predictions: an outright CBB and a better-than-.500-season sounds like a bit of a reach, particularly with QB1 down for the count.  But heck, if Rex Ryan can win the Super Bowl (again), I guess anything's possible.

[polbear73]

Good memory, maineman, and it was a terrific trip for those who participated. Thank you for reminding me, you tend to forget the good things during the tough times.

[RetiredMule]

With regards to the Sparacio "hype train", I do not believe there was much. I think this board was inundated with one poster, who shall remain unnamed, who was a very vocal anti-Harrington, pro-career backup. (I think we all knew who he was.) There was thought within the program that Sparacio, as mentioned by another poster, would be a good fit at another position given his athleticism. It seems that transition was implemented recently. It also makes sense, when preparing for the future, that it may be best to give the freshman O'Brien experience as he seems to be the future of the position following Harrington's graduation in the spring. I think the ship of Sparacio at quarterback has sailed. Look for him to transition to greener positional pastures with O'Brien filling in in a more permanent capacity if Harrington is indeed out for a few weeks.

[westcoastDad]

Is there anyone from Wesleyan on the board? Would be great to know what happened prior or during the playing of the Anthem....from their perspective

[ColbyFootballDad]

Regarding the selection of schools in the NESCAC  from yesterday's conversations on this board. I must say that I was surprised he chose Colby over over all the others but he knew right away that Colby was the school for him. It is the least like where he grew up of all the rest was likely a factor. He is now in the mix on the field as an FY and feels like he'll is apart of rebuilding or building a winning football program. My son also considered and was recruited by Case Western and  WC,TU, TC,and BC in the NESCAC. He knows very good football players that were cut at Trinity after being recruited and told they'd have a role.  SAD Situation for guys playing their last years of football who are fantastic students and young men in my view. We only really considered the NESCAC schools and had no interest in even discussing his only D1 opportunity at Holy Cross. If he is happy, so am I.  They'll compete, get better and BTW I don't believe they are horrible. I expect them to prove that assertion on the field.  I predict wins at Bates, Hamilton, and Bowdoin and a few close ones that no one expects based on my research.  This is my last post until the end of the season. Lets see how i do. TTYL #BTP

First, I am delighted your son has a chance to contribute as a FY, and that he feels he is part of something big.  And my heart goes out to those Trinity recruits.  For better or for worse, I think Trinity may be the only place in the CAC that recruits so heavily, then has to cut some of those recruits.

But as for your predictions: an outright CBB and a better-than-.500-season sounds like a bit of a reach, particularly with QB1 down for the count.  But heck, if Rex Ryan can win the Super Bowl (again), I guess anything's possible.

err that would be a .500 season and not a "better" than .500 season. I think they'll make another or two close but that is all i can see at best BTP

[Trin9-0]

Great job with the Tufts video. Not sure if it was editing, but the temporary lights that were brought in for the game didn't seem to provide very much light on the field.

Along with the new field and scoreboard, Jessee/Miller Field also has permanent lights. No plans for a night game in Hartford this season but I imagine it won't be long before there's a Saturday night game in The Coop. I can only assume it would be a standing room only crowd, especially if it's against one of the top tier opponents. 

[amh63]

FrankU....thanks!....in truth a little before my interest in football.  College football became serious when I entered Amherst.  First realized that Williams' Alum Bennett(spelling?)....Sec of Education.... was a player on the Catholic League Champs that played my DC Public HC team for the City Championship soon afterwards. Sort of the first battle of our schools before I even entered Amherst.  It was a Jesuit school to boot!

[Grabowski]

Speaking of kids getting cut, can anyone explain the logic of the roster size?  I understand the spirit of the other CAC quirks, but as long as each school gets 25 kids through admissions a year, why wouldn't the roster limit be 100?  Cut down the travel roster, fine, everyone gets that.  But one of the best things about football everywhere I've been a part of it is that if you are willing to put up with the hard parts they let you wear the uniform on Saturday.

How crappy for the kids that get the ax to explain it to their friends back home.  Apparently none of the presidents or whoever wrote up the rule saw 'Rudy.'  IMO, the rule is terrible for coaches and some players without providing benefit to anyone.  Am I missing something?

[PolarCat]

To the best of my knowledge, the roster limit is 75, yet several CAC programs have fewer than 70 players at the start of the season.  That number normally shrinks over the course of the year, due to injuries, and sometimes other factors (academic probation or disciplinary issues).  As unfair as it may seem to recruit a kid only to cut him, I think it would be even more unfair for School A to have a 100-person roster while School B can only field 65 kids.

I don't think any of us (or our sons) have been in the position, so we don't know how the conversation went with those recruited kids.  Was it "You will have a chance to compete for a spot, but there is no guarantee you will make the roster"?  Or was the kid led to believe he was a lock to see playing time, and getting cut came as a surprise that rocked his world?

I'm guessing it's the former.  It's the same one or two programs that have this issue, year-in and year-out, and if the coaching staff was less than completely forthcoming with recruits, you'd assume the word would have gotten out. 

[hamgrand]

I know that at Middlebury, Hamilton and Trinity, they are upfront that cuts can happen due to the 75 man roster, but they also have a philosophy that they will not cut recruited freshman.  I believe they tell that to the recruits (or they certainly have in the past.)  Middlebury had a large and strong freshmen recruiting class and had to make some very tough upperclassman cuts this year.  Hamilton traditionally had smaller numbers but have had to consider cuts in the last couple of years.

Several years at Trinity, they had a pretty big Freshman class of around 30.  They cut some upperclassmen, but they also told some Freshman that did not make the roster (I am not sure if they all were actually recruited) that they can't practice, but they can be as much a part of the team as allowed, wear a jersey on the sidelines for home games and then try out again in their sophomore year.  I am pretty sure at least one of those players in that recruiting class ended up making the team as a sophomore and making a significant contribution as an upperclassman.

Tough to see good kids get cut as upperclassman.  I do wish the roster limit was a little higher - How about 80 or 85?  Doesn't sound like much but could be a big difference for depth with injuries that occur every year.

[amh63]

Surprised about the discussion wrt to size of the team, recruits, etc.  Am aware of new posters and recent parents  maybe unaware of the origin present Nescac limits of squad size and tips for football player per year...somewhat unrelated to the number of football " recruits"  arriving at a school.  Bowdoin College newspaper...do not remember which of the two publications...did a series of articles on the matter a while back. So other poster can cite the series of articles better?
Anyway, Nescac football is presently limited to 8 games per season with an upper limit of the squad to be 75.  In each FY class, there is a limit of 14 " tips"  for football student-athletes.  There maybe more than 14 football playing students in a class.  These numbers have been agreed upon by the admission directors of all CAC schools and approved by the Prezs of all the CAC schools.  The Prezs controls the number of games in a season as well as the rule of no post season games.  Post season games for other sports are also controlled and set by the Prezs.  Any more details as to why, etc. is referred to the Bowdoin newspaper articles and others.

Vandy's post has suggested that I must add a bit of more historic info.  Prior to the formation of the CAC, there were no such football squad limits.  It was quite common that the two schools that carried the biggest football squads were Williams and Amherst...often averaging over 90 plus players while other schools now in the conference had much smaller squads...many under the present limit of 75.  It is ironic in a way that the initiative to make sports competitive in general and football in particular that the limit of 75 for the football team was set along with "tips" of 14 / year.  The major architect of this arrangement was again ironic...A Williams alum and former Dean of Admisson at Williams who then came to Amherst in the same capacity.  Others can add and correct this post wrt to timeframe.  Will not go into the tips as it is special consideration....academic factors...that are tied to the academic standards of the individual schools.  Underlying it is the benefit of the student who likes to play football.  It Is unfair to the student to admit him if he is not able to get his degree...no special courses...like the infamous Un. Of Michigan course...Rocks for Jocks...a geology course.  Academics ifactors are always the foundation of conditions set on sport activities by the Prezs.

[Vandy74]

I know that at Middlebury, Hamilton and Trinity, they are upfront that cuts can happen due to the 75 man roster, but they also have a philosophy that they will not cut recruited freshman.  I believe they tell that to the recruits (or they certainly have in the past.)  Middlebury had a large and strong freshmen recruiting class and had to make some very tough upperclassman cuts this year.  Hamilton traditionally had smaller numbers but have had to consider cuts in the last couple of years.

Several years at Trinity, they had a pretty big Freshman class of around 30.  They cut some upperclassmen, but they also told some Freshman that did not make the roster (I am not sure if they all were actually recruited) that they can't practice, but they can be as much a part of the team as allowed, wear a jersey on the sidelines for home games and then try out again in their sophomore year.  I am pretty sure at least one of those players in that recruiting class ended up making the team as a sophomore and making a significant contribution as an upperclassman.

Tough to see good kids get cut as upperclassman.  I do wish the roster limit was a little higher - How about 80 or 85?  Doesn't sound like much but could be a big difference for depth with injuries that occur every year.

The smaller size roster limit is a somewhat recent decision.  MC listed 92 participants the first season of required NESCAC play.  You seldom see fewer than 90 players on any DIII roster so I'm not sure what was behind the decision to set the maximum at 75.  I agree that cutting upperclassmen who have played in previous seasons is tough to see.  A good example can be made for a Middlebury player who was asked to virtually carry the offense against Trinity last year when injuries, and I suspect, illness had decimated the Panther attack.  Jonathan Hurvitz was an undersized utility back who over the course of the season touched the ball 48 times for a total of 157 yards of offense.  Against the Bantams, in a game Middlebury led 14-13 with just under three minutes to play, he caught 7 passes and carried the ball 22 times for a game leading 116 yards.  Unfortunately he was the one who fumbled it away 34 yards from the wrong end zone setting up the lone TD the Trinity offense was able to muster.  One board poster made brief mention of the game implying he had seen it when obviously he had not.  Hamilton had defeated Williams that afternoon and understandably that was the dominant story on the board.  While the Bob Ritter era has seen only one losing season without an 8-0 slate or two a certain level of respect is denied.  Also understandable.   Hurvitz, now a senior, is not on the roster for the first time since coming to MC.  One could reasonably assume he missed the cut.   

[lumbercat]

Hamgrand-
I know of several instances at a couple of NESCAC schools where a payer was recruited and cut. However, I'm not sure what your definition of "recruited" is?
They may not promise a kid a spot but if they bring a kid to camp there is a recruiting process there.

If they are totally up front with a recruit there is no problem.

However, at the end of day it all boils down to what they tell the recruit and how they manage expectations. Sometimes kids are clearly classified as walk-ons with nothing guaranteed but this is not always the case.

Thinning the herd.

[PolarCat]

I hope that is not the case.  I know Hurvitz and he is a wonderful young man.