FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[NESCAC.Football.Observer]

To all the various posters about roster cuts........

My 2 cents only.....

But this isn't Pop Warner where every kid gets a jersey and helmet... this is college - albeit NESCAC D3 - where you earn a spot.

So you are a kid and think you are recruited.... unless you totally s*ck, you don't get cut as a frosh..... but after that free (frosh) year... well... you need to earn your spot every year.

So I'm not sure why this list is pining over these kids who get cut... I mean... It's the same as life......

And as far as Trinity and their cuts.... GOOD for them.    NOONE is saved a spot for 4 years.   And all these kids know the math... 25 kids x 4 years = 100 kids less the 25 cuts to the mandated 75 roster max.

EVERY kid knows the math...... they just think it'll never happen to them.

Frankly.... You want to avoid being cut.... Go to a school in Maine.  (No offense intended there..... seriously... just speaking in realities.)   

But Amherst, Trinity, Middlebury, and Tufts all had to cut kids to get to 75.... (Williams, until last year, did so too.) 

So it's the reality of the situation. 

And thinking "it's unfortunate" is just a continuation of the "everyone deserves a trophy" issue.

Remember... if a kid is good enough, he's REALLY not going to get cut. 

Regardless...... it's a great life lesson.

My 2 cents.

[JEFFFAN]

As noted previously, not making the cut in NESCAC or any Division 3 program ... "there aint a Division 4".   Great line by one of the most highly successful coaches in Williams history.   Don't make the cut - play intramurals and have fun.

[westcoastDad]

Well said Nescac Football Observer.  Cuts are just a part of the "game".  My son's freshman year (Amherst), he didn't get to travel for overnight games.  I have a nephew playing for USC....6'6 320lbs....was redshirted....hated it....now he's not even on travel squad....humbled beyond belief.  I keep telling him...."ya gotta earn your spot and your time". 

Whether D1 or D3.....if you can play....you will find the gridiron. 

[westcoastDad]

NAIA or JUCO are options to D3 fallouts......but intramurals would definitely be the better way lol

quote author=westcoastDad link=topic=4146.msg1755747#msg1755747 date=1475116475]
Well said Nescac Football Observer.  Cuts are just a part of the "game".  My son's freshman year (Amherst), he didn't get to travel for overnight games.  I have a nephew playing for USC....6'6 320lbs....was redshirted....hated it....now he's not even on travel squad....humbled beyond belief.  I keep telling him...."ya gotta earn your spot and your time". 

Whether D1 or D3.....if you can play....you will find the gridiron.
[/quote]

[westcoastDad]

http://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-wesleyan-ryan-welch-football-sentencing-0831-20160830-story.html

This may be a good read.  The mother's comment is 100%....

[polbear73]

Regarding the cut player, as unfortunate as it is, that player has the "consolation" of being admitted to one of the finest colleges in the country.  At the very least, football as an extracurricular activity may have helped his application.  How many times have we seen it go the other way-a recruited player is admitted and later decides not to play. 

Either way, it's part of life.

[Vandy74]

Is there anyone from Wesleyan on the board? Would be great to know what happened prior or during the playing of the Anthem....from their perspective

Where's AlDavis when you need him.  

[ITH radio]

Thx to Matt Noonan for having me on his NoontimeSports.com podcast. We covered Wk 1 of NESCAC games, including MIDD, WC and others.

[Trin9-0]

Frankly.... You want to avoid being cut.... Go to a school in Maine.  (No offense intended there..... seriously... just speaking in realities.) 

I'm fairly certain this was the intent of the 75 man roster limit in the first place. The belief was that Williams, Amherst, Trinity were over-recruiting and that by imposing a roster limit players looking for a chance to play would choose to attend another NESCAC school. I think most on this board would agree that the logic is deeply flawed.

The roster limit was instituted while I was playing and I saw many teammates get cut who could have started or at least played at other NESCAC school. They did end up forming a flag football team that very well could have competed with the bottom tier NESCAC schools at that time (Hamilton was just abysmal in the early 2000s).

I don't see any benefit to the roster limitation. Recruits, often foolishly, believe they can play anywhere and hopefully they're choosing their school based on more than expected playing time.

[maineman]

There used to be a New England D-3 College Football poll that came out from a Wesleyan site.  Does anyone know if it is still being done and how to access it online?

[polbear73]

Frankly.... You want to avoid being cut.... Go to a school in Maine.  (No offense intended there..... seriously... just speaking in realities.) 

I'm fairly certain this was the intent of the 75 man roster limit in the first place. The belief was that Williams, Amherst, Trinity were over-recruiting and that by imposing a roster limit players looking for a chance to play would choose to attend another NESCAC school. I think most on this board would agree that the logic is deeply flawed.

The roster limit was instituted while I was playing and I saw many teammates get cut who could have started or at least played at other NESCAC school. They did end up forming a flag football team that very well could have competed with the bottom tier NESCAC schools at that time (Hamilton was just abysmal in the early 2000s).

I don't see any benefit to the roster limitation. Recruits, often foolishly, believe they can play anywhere and hopefully they're choosing their school based on more than expected playing time.

I think it was a misguided attempts by the conference presidents, the same guys who give us the 8 game schedule, to ensure against an "overemphasis" of football.  This has kept NESCAC significantly more restrictive than the Ivy League and has got to be a recruiting disadvantage for those players considering both levels.  Ironically, it has been a topic on this board that the 75 man roster is harmful to student-athletes as, by midseason, injuries have further winnowed down a small roster and some teams have had a hard time scrimmaging.  I still remember former Bowdoin President Edwards at the time lamenting that players have gotten too big-I am surprised they didn't try to impose weight limits a la Pop Warner.  Hopefully a new and more enlightened regime is in office league wide. 

[amh63]

At this stage of the season, any more rumors or info wrt to a NINE game season where every football playing school plays each other every year. 
When the eight game season and the 75 roster limit was set by the Prezs, there has been a complete turnover of Prezs, I believe.  Hope on this matter is like the return of Skywalker to battle the Evil Empire, etc......

[middpantherpride]

I know that at Middlebury, Hamilton and Trinity, they are upfront that cuts can happen due to the 75 man roster, but they also have a philosophy that they will not cut recruited freshman.  I believe they tell that to the recruits (or they certainly have in the past.)  Middlebury had a large and strong freshmen recruiting class and had to make some very tough upperclassman cuts this year.  Hamilton traditionally had smaller numbers but have had to consider cuts in the last couple of years.

Several years at Trinity, they had a pretty big Freshman class of around 30.  They cut some upperclassmen, but they also told some Freshman that did not make the roster (I am not sure if they all were actually recruited) that they can't practice, but they can be as much a part of the team as allowed, wear a jersey on the sidelines for home games and then try out again in their sophomore year.  I am pretty sure at least one of those players in that recruiting class ended up making the team as a sophomore and making a significant contribution as an upperclassman.

Tough to see good kids get cut as upperclassman.  I do wish the roster limit was a little higher - How about 80 or 85?  Doesn't sound like much but could be a big difference for depth with injuries that occur every year.

The smaller size roster limit is a somewhat recent decision.  MC listed 92 participants the first season of required NESCAC play.  You seldom see fewer than 90 players on any DIII roster so I'm not sure what was behind the decision to set the maximum at 75.  I agree that cutting upperclassmen who have played in previous seasons is tough to see.  A good example can be made for a Middlebury player who was asked to virtually carry the offense against Trinity last year when injuries, and I suspect, illness had decimated the Panther attack.  Jonathan Hurvitz was an undersized utility back who over the course of the season touched the ball 48 times for a total of 157 yards of offense.  Against the Bantams, in a game Middlebury led 14-13 with just under three minutes to play, he caught 7 passes and carried the ball 22 times for a game leading 116 yards.  Unfortunately he was the one who fumbled it away 34 yards from the wrong end zone setting up the lone TD the Trinity offense was able to muster.  One board poster made brief mention of the game implying he had seen it when obviously he had not.  Hamilton had defeated Williams that afternoon and understandably that was the dominant story on the board.  While the Bob Ritter era has seen only one losing season without an 8-0 slate or two a certain level of respect is denied.  Also understandable.   Hurvitz, now a senior, is not on the roster for the first time since coming to MC.  One could reasonably assume he missed the cut.   

To clarify, Hurvitz did not get cut. He did not report for camp. He was injured last season towards the end of the season and made a tough decision to not play as he did not want to risk injury as he is also a very good lacrosse player.

[Vandy74]

I know that at Middlebury, Hamilton and Trinity, they are upfront that cuts can happen due to the 75 man roster, but they also have a philosophy that they will not cut recruited freshman.  I believe they tell that to the recruits (or they certainly have in the past.)  Middlebury had a large and strong freshmen recruiting class and had to make some very tough upperclassman cuts this year.  Hamilton traditionally had smaller numbers but have had to consider cuts in the last couple of years.

Several years at Trinity, they had a pretty big Freshman class of around 30.  They cut some upperclassmen, but they also told some Freshman that did not make the roster (I am not sure if they all were actually recruited) that they can't practice, but they can be as much a part of the team as allowed, wear a jersey on the sidelines for home games and then try out again in their sophomore year.  I am pretty sure at least one of those players in that recruiting class ended up making the team as a sophomore and making a significant contribution as an upperclassman.

Tough to see good kids get cut as upperclassman.  I do wish the roster limit was a little higher - How about 80 or 85?  Doesn't sound like much but could be a big difference for depth with injuries that occur every year.

The smaller size roster limit is a somewhat recent decision.  MC listed 92 participants the first season of required NESCAC play.  You seldom see fewer than 90 players on any DIII roster so I'm not sure what was behind the decision to set the maximum at 75.  I agree that cutting upperclassmen who have played in previous seasons is tough to see.  A good example can be made for a Middlebury player who was asked to virtually carry the offense against Trinity last year when injuries, and I suspect, illness had decimated the Panther attack.  Jonathan Hurvitz was an undersized utility back who over the course of the season touched the ball 48 times for a total of 157 yards of offense.  Against the Bantams, in a game Middlebury led 14-13 with just under three minutes to play, he caught 7 passes and carried the ball 22 times for a game leading 116 yards.  Unfortunately he was the one who fumbled it away 34 yards from the wrong end zone setting up the lone TD the Trinity offense was able to muster.  One board poster made brief mention of the game implying he had seen it when obviously he had not.  Hamilton had defeated Williams that afternoon and understandably that was the dominant story on the board.  While the Bob Ritter era has seen only one losing season without an 8-0 slate or two a certain level of respect is denied.  Also understandable.   Hurvitz, now a senior, is not on the roster for the first time since coming to MC.  One could reasonably assume he missed the cut.   

To clarify, Hurvitz did not get cut. He did not report for camp. He was injured last season towards the end of the season and made a tough decision to not play as he did not want to risk injury as he is also a very good lacrosse player.

Thanks for that info middpantherpride.  I'd hoped it was something like that.  I knew Hurvitz also played lacrosse.  Joey Zelkowitz made a similar decision two seasons back if I'm not mistaken.  My sisiter-in-law, somewhat recently retired, was the HC for the Panther women for over 30 years.  It's a great game, both the men's and women's formats.

[PolarCat]

It sounds like Middlebury has a high powered offense again. What are the chances of Colby slowing them down and pulling out a win? That would really be something.

Anything's possible.  The Bills could win the Super Bowl, Tim Tebow could win a write in campaign for President, The Donald could offer up his tax returns and the Chinese and Russian hackers could confess they were really just looking for the secret formula for Coca Cola.  But I think this weekend will show us - yet again - that there's a big difference between the teams at the top of the 'CAC and the others.