FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

JEFFFAN · October 03, 2016, 11:38:25 AM

In looking at the very, very early season records, I don't think that much can be declared about who the top team is in the NESCAC and which team might be fourth or even fifth. Of the undefeated teams, Trinity, Amherst, and Middlebury all crushed their opponents with not much competition. The fourth undefeated team, Tufts, had a very close game against Bates after Trinity crushed them so there might be some thread to read into where Trinity sits compared to Tufts. Wesleyan should be added into the mix because the loss to Tufts was a close one and the Cardinals rebounded nicely last week. Bottom line is that it is just too early to tell which team or even top two teams are. This week's Middlebury vs Amherst game is arguably, after Tufts vs Wesleyan, the first most important game of the season.

gridiron · October 03, 2016, 12:25:07 PM

Jefffan--for the past five years or so, there has been very little movement among the teams and therefore few surprises. One can pretty much count on the strongest teams to be the group of Trinity, Middlebury and Amherst. Just behind them will be Tufts and Wesleyan. The weakest teams will be Williams, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Bates and Colby. No anticipated change this season.

JEFFFAN · October 03, 2016, 01:20:12 PM

Very true, gridiron. My guess is that when we are all on here in five years the Ephs will very much be in the discussion. The Williams history in football suggests that they will not be down forever. As for the other programs, they will have to do something that they have never really done to get to the top of the NESCAC.

ColbyFootballDad · October 03, 2016, 01:27:04 PM

Quote from: gridiron on October 03, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Jefffan--for the past five years or so, there has been very little movement among the teams and therefore few surprises. One can pretty much count on the strongest teams to be the group of Trinity, Middlebury and Amherst. Just behind them will be Tufts and Wesleyan. The weakest teams will be Williams, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Bates and Colby. No anticipated change this season.

Sooo. 5 years in the history of this league not very long. However, What are the factors that have created this situation? Why are the haves, haves and the have nots, have nots?

gridiron · October 03, 2016, 01:31:17 PM

Many factors contribute for sure. However, IMO there it is not a coincidence those five teams at the upper half of the spectrum currently all have tight relationships between the football programs and admissions.

ColbyFootballDad · October 03, 2016, 01:32:36 PM

How does NESCAC Football stand up against other D3 Football? How do you veterans of this league believe our best teams match up against the best teams in other D3 lagues. Just wondering what I am watching and how good is this overall level of play. I guess the 9th game is expected to provide provide perspective.

PolarCat · October 03, 2016, 02:04:07 PM

Since the CAC doesn't participate in post-season play, we will never know for sure. But I suspect we'd get our clocks cleaned by the better teams in the OAC, CCIW, NWC, WIAC, Empire 8 and Liberty League, hold our own with MASCAC and ECFC. I don't know enough about other conferences to have an opinion.

Across the CAC, we have higher academic standards than a lot of the other D3 programs, a much shorter pre-season, and a prohibition on post-season play. All of which make it more difficult to recruit a roster full of outstanding athletes.

middhoops · October 03, 2016, 02:16:46 PM

Quote from: gridiron on October 03, 2016, 01:31:17 PM
Many factors contribute for sure. However, IMO there it is not a coincidence those five teams at the upper half of the spectrum currently all have tight relationships between the football programs and admissions.

Is this an established fact? Do the top tier teams use more tips for football? Do they lower standards?
Clearly this isn't the situation with Williams today. The Ephs let down their recruiting effort for a while. You see the results.
I absolutely don't know the answers, here.
nescac1, where are you?

hamgrand · October 03, 2016, 02:53:42 PM

Quote from: ColbyFootballDad on October 03, 2016, 01:32:36 PM
How does NESCAC Football stand up against other D3 Football? How do you veterans of this league believe our best teams match up against the best teams in other D3 lagues. Just wondering what I am watching and how good is this overall level of play. I guess the 9th game is expected to provide provide perspective.

I have seen RPI play and they would go less than 500 in our league. I think they are the caliber of The lower tier of the league. RPI was pretty small and the QB wouldn't,t start on any any NESCAC teams. I also saw Alfred this year and they looked pretty solid. I think they would be at the caliber of the top tier of the NESCAC teams. They were big with a bunch of good athletes. Reminded me of a Trinity team.

Norwich and MIT did not seem strong to me at all.

This is just my opinion from watching two years of RP! And trying to compare it to the NESCAC.

frank uible · October 03, 2016, 03:08:34 PM

A SWAG is that the general quality of NESCAC football lies somewhere between the 40s among all d3 teams. In a typical year the best team in NESCAC would be about 4th or 5th in the OAC.

PolarCat · October 03, 2016, 03:21:52 PM

Quote from: middhoops on October 03, 2016, 02:16:46 PM

Is this an established fact? Do the top tier teams use more tips for football? Do they lower standards? Clearly this isn't the situation with Williams today. The Ephs let down their recruiting effort for a while. You see the results. I absolutely don't know the answers, here.
nescac1, where are you?

There's tips and then there's tips.

According to the Princeton Review,Trinity accepted 33% of its applicants, and had an ACT composite of 26-30.

Compare this to Wesleyan and the Maine schools. Bowdoin accepted 15% and had an ACT composite of 31-34. Wesleyan, Bates and Colby fell in the middle, with acceptance rates of 22%, 22% and 23% and ACT composites of 29-33, 28-32 and 29-32 respectively.

Assuming these numbers are accurate (and if you read it on the internet, it must be true), I think it's fair to say that Wes and the Maine schools are more restrictive than Trinity. So a tip that Coach Wells receives may allow him to bring in a kid with a 31 ACT, while a similar tip will allow Devanney to bring in a kid with a 19 or 26 ACT.

It's not a question of having more tips or of lowering standards. It's just that the tips have a different meaning, depending on the overall demographic of the student body. (And as the father of a Bowdoin student athlete, I will state for the record that being surrounded by a community of brainiac millenials ain't necessarily a good thing).

Grabowski · October 03, 2016, 04:46:54 PM

Sure you aren't looking at Kentucky Wesleyan or somesuch PC?

Grabowski · October 03, 2016, 04:51:31 PM

Wes' 25-75 ACT ranges from 32-34, if you trust their web site

JEFFFAN · October 03, 2016, 05:25:53 PM

Re Williams, they continue to win the Director's Cup every year by a wide margin so anyone who says that they have de-emphasized athletics just isn't reading the numbers correctly. In football, however, they are only six seasons from being undefeated - 2010 - and that has to be from bad recruiting. Bad meaning that they took the wrong players or they were unable to win the battles with Amherst, Middlebury and the Ivies for kids. Hard to drop that quickly but they have. It is also why I think that they will be back very quickly. Their history in football is as storied as any school in the NESCAC so they should be able to recruit to that standard and the obviously high standard of other sports at the school. Plus, it is Williams, so that helps.

Re competing with other D3 schools, the NESCAC is just plain superior in other sports if you look at the national standings every year. But those teams can compete in the post-season and football cannot. NESCAC football never will compete in the playoffs but if they did the caliber of player would skyrocket. Just like it has in every other playoff eligible NESCAC sport.

Vandy74 · October 03, 2016, 05:43:00 PM

Quote from: ColbyFootballDad on October 03, 2016, 01:27:04 PM
Quote from: gridiron on October 03, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Jefffan--for the past five years or so, there has been very little movement among the teams and therefore few surprises. One can pretty much count on the strongest teams to be the group of Trinity, Middlebury and Amherst. Just behind them will be Tufts and Wesleyan. The weakest teams will be Williams, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Bates and Colby. No anticipated change this season.

Sooo. 5 years in the history of this league not very long. However, What are the factors that have created this situation? Why are the haves, haves and the have nots, have nots?

ColbyFootballDad,

Nescac Football has been official since 2000. Here are the overall standings through the end of last season. Make of it what you will.

Trinity 106-22 5(8-0) 2(4-4) the first two seasons, no losing records
Amherst 100-28 4(8-0) 2(4-4) 2003, 2007, no losing records
Williams 87-41 3(8-0) 10-22 since 2012 beginning with the only 4-4 slate followed by their only losing records since NESCAC scheduling began.
Middlebury 82-46 3(7-1) 6(4-4) including 4 consecutively 2001-2004, only losing season 3-5 in 2005

Wesleyan 63-65 Inconsistent program, 10 seasons at 4-4 or better, 6 winning records, 24-8 since 2012.
Colby 61-67 Deceptive, started strong at 33-15 first six seasons. 3(4-4) best since then and only once since 2010.

Tufts 46-82 4 winning records, 3(4-4) no consistency, (0-24) 2011-2013, (6-2) last season.

Bowdoin 37-91 One winning record (6-2) in 2005, 2(4-4) the last in 2011.
Bates 36-92 (5-3) in 2012 first winning record followed by first two (4-4) slates. Disappointed in 2015.
Hamilton 22-106 Best season was 2011 at (3-5)