FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Trin9-0]

Well put Bant & Ephs. You both made some outstanding points. The only thing I would argue is that Trin's success could be attributed more to the defensive side of the ball than to Priore's offensive line schemes. However, you are 100% correct that the philosophy Priore implemented was responsible for the turn around in the Trin program. Expect more of the same with Devanney.

[chessdoc]

Is williams playing Miami this year?.

[bant551]

Right, I think everyone is forgetting that Trinity broke a very long WILLIAMS streak.  Yes, this type of winning streak is very rare, but other teams have done it.

The style of football Trinity plays, and the dedication of the athletes who don't treat it as an extension of high school football, really makes Trinity an anomaly.

However, it would be ridiculous to blame Trinity for being extremely dedicated, while the other teams don't have that type of hardcore attitude.

Lets be frank here.  Blair was a shoo-in to be a great football player and an all-American wrestler in Division III.  Williams would have gotten him in, easily.  I went to school with a kid who got into Williams who probably was alot worse academically than Blair, and far less of a quality player in those two sports.

Leo was a transfer from Colgate who was obviously going to be a very good player... again, a player Williams would have easily gotten into their school if they recruited him or he wanted to go.

I was not even close to qualified to get into Williams on academic merit, yet they were going to take me on... a 5'11" offensive lineman mind you.  If they'd do that for a 5'11" offensive linemen, you know they are pulling strings.

[Trin9-0]

It's true... I played with Bant551 and he was a miserable athlete! 

[bant551]

Hahaha, that might go to disprove these conspiracy theories about Trinity football! 

[chessdoc]

As former nescac players whats ur opinion of quality as compared to say the ivy league? Also sometimes a few of former players display hostility to trinity. Even though my son will go to one of the other nescac schools in the fall  it appears that having a strong team with tradition only motivates the others to do better??? What am I missing.

[bant551]

Ivy League quality of education or quality of football?

I'm told by a fellow 'baller who went to Dartmouth that anyone he knew could have gotten B's there, without even trying.  The same is true actually for most schools accross the nation, from what I am told by my friends who went to various different colleges.

As for the level of football, the Ivy's are absolutely a few steps up from Trinity, though probably a few significant steps below playoff I-AA teams.  Somewhere in between the two, though probably closer to I-AA playoff teams than the NESCAC.  And I-AA playoff teams are very, very good football squads, and would crush Ivy's, I think.

So I'd say Ivy's are alot better than NESCACs, but alot worse than the Maines and Hofstras and Delawares of the world (in an average year).

[Jonny Utah]

Right, I think everyone is forgetting that Trinity broke a very long WILLIAMS streak.  Yes, this type of winning streak is very rare, but other teams have done it.

The style of football Trinity plays, and the dedication of the athletes who don't treat it as an extension of high school football, really makes Trinity an anomaly.

However, it would be ridiculous to blame Trinity for being extremely dedicated, while the other teams don't have that type of hardcore attitude.

Lets be frank here.  Blair was a shoo-in to be a great football player and an all-American wrestler in Division III.  Williams would have gotten him in, easily.  I went to school with a kid who got into Williams who probably was alot worse academically than Blair, and far less of a quality player in those two sports.

Leo was a transfer from Colgate who was obviously going to be a very good player... again, a player Williams would have easily gotten into their school if they recruited him or he wanted to go.

I was not even close to qualified to get into Williams on academic merit, yet they were going to take me on... a 5'11" offensive lineman mind you.  If they'd do that for a 5'11" offensive linemen, you know they are pulling strings.

Bant, I have a son of a friend that wanted to go to a few nescac schools.  Williams told him he needed a 1300, Bowdoin, Trinity and Middlebury all took him with a 1120.  (The kid was herald all-scholastic).  From what I understand Williams has a cutoff of 1300 for the football guys while its 1100 at the other schools that he applied to.  Thats what he was told anyway.

[bant551]

Interesting.  Things probably have changed since then (almost 6-7 years ago now when I was going on visits).  For whatever reason, Farley thought I would be a good player, and was going to pull me in with an 1180, being only an all-conference high school player, and a short lineman.

They also could be just saying "thanks but no thanks", without having to tell him they like other players better, or that he doesn't fill a need.  But I could also see it being simply related to the passage of time between when I was applying and the present.  Also, Williams might have been telling HIM he needed a 1300, while a monster wouldn't necessarily need that type of score.

I have no clue.  I know alot of kids who went to Williams because of football, and a few of them are most definitely dum-dums, just like everywhere else.

[Jonny Utah]

Yea I think he said that bowdoin could take 15 guys with an 1100 from admissions while Williams could only take 2 with a 1200 and like 5 with a 1250.  I heard that a lot of Williams coaches have lost some battles with admissions over kids they wanted to get in over the last five years.

But your right, if a coach has the guys they want already set with admissions, then thats it.  Even the guy with a 1300 isnt getting into williams after those decisions are done.

[Garnet]

Application numbers are up across the nation making it tougher to get in to any school.

Top Colleges Reject
Record Numbers

Schools Say Surging Applications Produce
Unusually Competitive Year; Stanford Admits 11%

I would post a link to the article in the WSJ from April 5, 2006 but I can't.  Sorry.

[union89]

Garnet ~
U89 figured you were in here to sing Priore praises as well.  U89 has done it too many times....NESCACers were starting to think U89 may be Chaz' relative on something.

[tmerton]

Bant, I have a son of a friend that wanted to go to a few nescac schools.  Williams told him he needed a 1300, Bowdoin, Trinity and Middlebury all took him with a 1120.  (The kid was herald all-scholastic).  From what I understand Williams has a cutoff of 1300 for the football guys while its 1100 at the other schools that he applied to.  Thats what he was told anyway.

Williams (Amherst, too, I think) has had to respond institutionally to a lot of anti-football sentiment from students and some alums.  It might well be called "Swarthmore style" sentiment.  Read some of the stuff on the ephblog and you'll get a taste of it.  The result has been a reduction in the number of academic "tips," especially for football I believe, and probably an increase in the minimum standards.   Plus this year has been extremely competitive.

[Longtooth]

What do you have to get into at williams, bottom line?

[Jonny Utah]

LT, it depends who you are and what sports you play.

The average student at Williams has about a 1420 SAT (1330-1520 median)

And I heard from some reliable sources that athletic coaches can get about 2- guys around a 1200 and then 10 more aroun 1300.  It helps if you play 2 sports too which several guys do.