FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[ColbyFootball]

I think I know the answer, but I'm curious what you all think about Colby's chances of beating Trinity opening day in Hartford.

[amh63]

Wow..Vandy!  Your post here woke me up from my Slumber on this board .  Very rare post on the football board.  Well done to cover your Cuz's back and VT talented student- athletes. 
It should be pointed out  that your post marked the first on page 800!  Also, that you come from fine football knowledge stock...although you went to a SEC school.  Vandy's two brothers attended and played football at Amherst...I must point out to new posters on this board.
Say hi to your Cuz...Middhoops. 

[middhoops]

Much as I appreciate the support, Lumbercat is 100% correct regarding the relative lack of college bound football talent in Vermont.  Small state, tiny high schools, few football programs, scant competition.
But the Stalcup kid is really good by our standards.  And he won't be competing against a NESCAC POY or a D1 transfer.
Bottom line, he gets an education at Bowdoin.  That is the prize.

[amh63]

Scanning the Nescac schools sites, found out that Tufts is another school upgrading its football field for the 2017 season....new playing surface grass turf? 

[nescac1]

ColbyFootball, while never zero, as close to zero as you could imagine.  Trinity looks absolutely stacked (again) next year and is the clear conference favorite.  I think Tufts may be slightly down, and Amherst and Wesleyan both slightly improved, with Midd putting out yet another offensive juggernaut.  Any of those teams -- especially Wesleyan, which probably has the most returning talent in the league other than Trinity -- could certainly beat Trinity.  I sincerely doubt that Hamilton, Williams or any of the Maine teams, which looks like the bottom half of the league, will stand a chance, however. 

[polbear73]

Scanning the Nescac schools sites, found out that Tufts is another school upgrading its football field for the 2017 season....new playing surface grass turf?

That will leave Wesleyan's beautiful and historic Andrus Field as the sole remaining grass field. Since it's in the middle of campus, I doubt will ever see turf there. At least I hope we don't!

[amh63]

My comment wrt Tufts' new football cover had a question mark and a "grass turf" label.  Since I live near the oldest Turf farm in the nation...former...farm now part of the city recreation facilities....I consider Turf to be either grass OR artificial.  Tufts maybe just putting a new grass cover on its football field.  If so, hope it takes hold by August....ready for the first game.  Hope Tufts has a separate practice field! 
Yes, Wesleyan's field is the oldest in the nation...continuous football playing field.  Too bad that Wes still uses the field as a baseball field.
Two other comments. 
Trinity's AD is leaving by the end of the month. Nationwide search for a new one to start soon.  Trinity 8-0...have you any comments on the matter? Cannot be because of the football program.
It is to be noted that While Trinity "rolled over"  its opponents in a 8-0 season,  Amherst held Trinity to only 24 points last season in Hartford.  Actually led at the half.  Amherst offense scored only 14 points with a limited offense.  Amherst returns its starting QB this season.  Expect the matchup with Trinity at Pratt Field to be more competitive this season.

[JustAFan]

Amh63, the new surface on the Tufts football field is grass, not synthetic turf.  The Jumbos also just finished re-surfacing their basketball court and rumor has it that they have plans to convert their baseball field to artificial turf when funds become available.

[Vandy74]

ColbyFootball, while never zero, as close to zero as you could imagine.  Trinity looks absolutely stacked (again) next year and is the clear conference favorite.  I think Tufts may be slightly down, and Amherst and Wesleyan both slightly improved, with Midd putting out yet another offensive juggernaut.  Any of those teams -- especially Wesleyan, which probably has the most returning talent in the league other than Trinity -- could certainly beat Trinity.  I sincerely doubt that Hamilton, Williams or any of the Maine teams, which looks like the bottom half of the league, will stand a chance, however.

With the exception of Williams, a program we all expect to return to form within the next few years, can any of the present have-nots ever realistically anticipate becoming competitive now that the full 9-game schedule is finally in place?  Look at the pairs of swing teams that now will always be on their plates.  Bowdoin alternated Williams and Amherst.  Colby's schedule now features both Trinity and Williams.  Again, the Ephs are not going to remain among the easy outs for long.  Hamilton now plays both Amherst and Tufts.  The team least served by the full slate schedule is Bates, a program that has returned to form going 2-6 and 3-5 the past two seasons, but had boosted interest in Bobcat football, outside it's fanbase, by going 5-3, 4-4 and 4-4 the three years before.  They now have to play both Amherst and Trinity.  There's no crying in football but you have to be pretty cold-blooded not to feel just a bit sorry for a perennial have-not program that so recently has shown signs of possibly losing that moniker. 

amh63....I'm always happy to deliver your wake-up call when needed.   Our little buddy still adds to my -K count every few days.  I'd still like to know why he loves me so much.

[nescac1]

Vandy74, the change in scheduling does not make it easier. But any NESCAC school -- any one of them -- can develop a powerhouse football team with (1) the right coach and (2) the right institutional (namely admissions, cough cough) support.  In the early 1990s, Amherst's football team was a disaster, and it quickly rose to prominence by the middle of the decade.  Wesleyan and especially Tufts were very recently bottom-feeders and are now NESCAC powerhouses.  Williams has gone from 8-0 to 0-8 fairly rapidly and as you note is quite likely in 2-3 years to return to more typical from.  These types of swings happen far more often in NESCAC than in the D1 football powerhouses becasue an elite head coach and the addition of a mere 4-5 stud players per year over a 3-4 year period can be the difference between 2-7 and 7-2.  All it really takes is a strong institutional commitment over several years, with the right staff in place. 

[amh63]

JustAFan....thanks for the info!  Just saw a pic of the the refurbished floor...nice.   Cleaner looking floor without the multi-3 point lines.  Guess, I missed the notice of both the women and men now having the same lines.  Amherst did a refurbish of its floor last season.  Amherst rebuilt its baseball field when it added dugouts, etc....the whole nine yards recently....kept grass. 

Vandy....yes, our friend has been around, even when I have been sleeping lately.  Oh well, guess the truce is over. 

[ColbyFootball]

Vandy74, the change in scheduling does not make it easier. But any NESCAC school -- any one of them -- can develop a powerhouse football team with (1) the right coach and (2) the right institutional (namely admissions, cough cough) support.  In the early 1990s, Amherst's football team was a disaster, and it quickly rose to prominence by the middle of the decade.  Wesleyan and especially Tufts were very recently bottom-feeders and are now NESCAC powerhouses.  Williams has gone from 8-0 to 0-8 fairly rapidly and as you note is quite likely in 2-3 years to return to more typical from.  These types of swings happen far more often in NESCAC than in the D1 football powerhouses becasue an elite head coach and the addition of a mere 4-5 stud players per year over a 3-4 year period can be the difference between 2-7 and 7-2.  All it really takes is a strong institutional commitment over several years, with the right staff in place.

You read my mind about about the Tufts and Wesleyan turnarounds. And the impact of coaching.

[Vandy74]

Vandy74, the change in scheduling does not make it easier. But any NESCAC school -- any one of them -- can develop a powerhouse football team with (1) the right coach and (2) the right institutional (namely admissions, cough cough) support.  In the early 1990s, Amherst's football team was a disaster, and it quickly rose to prominence by the middle of the decade.  Wesleyan and especially Tufts were very recently bottom-feeders and are now NESCAC powerhouses.  Williams has gone from 8-0 to 0-8 fairly rapidly and as you note is quite likely in 2-3 years to return to more typical from.  These types of swings happen far more often in NESCAC than in the D1 football powerhouses because an elite head coach and the addition of a mere 4-5 stud players per year over a 3-4 year period can be the difference between 2-7 and 7-2.  All it really takes is a strong institutional commitment over several years, with the right staff in place.

Nescac1, as a fan of DIII football I hope you are correct and I follow the reasoning behind your argument.  Had James Franklin stayed at Vandy I might now be offering that program up as the proof of exactly what you say.  Chancellor Zeppos and AD David Williams are sincerely intent on placing the Vanderbilt football program among the SEC elite.  The intense disappointment on their faces was difficult to look at during the press conference held when Franklin publicly announced his decision to take the Penn State job.  Derek Mason has perhaps proven himself up to the challenge with last season's team.  The loss of Franklin, as well as it's timing, put him in a very deep hole to begin his tenure and in only three seasons he lead Vandy to a respectable 6-6 mark including several close losses and a bowl bid.  That said, the current Street and Smith's Yearbook includes the Commodores among the three SEC teams that won't go bowling this time around.  As we all know, it's a twelve team league.  When you have to play Alabama/Trinity, Florida/Amherst, Georgia/Middlebury, Tennessee/Williams (when they're back), LSU/Wesleyan and Texas A&M/Tufts every season you can see what Vandy and their perennially cellar dwelling counterparts in the NESCAC are up against trying to turn their programs around, especially with no prior winning tradition to help lure top prospects.

The swings you reference, Amherst, Wesleyan and Tufts all happened at schools that win more often than they lose.  That's why we know the Ephs are in swing mode.  Football means something and a few off years don't automatically remove them from blue chip (DIII caliber) interest.  Amherst is one of the winningest DIII football programs in the country, as are those of a couple other conference rivals.   Middlebury has only three true historical rivalries among the NESCAC schools predating the mandated schedule.  After Norwich, Williams was The game we wanted most.  We also always played Bates and Wesleyan.  When the NESCAC clods took the Cadets off our schedule  they added insult to injury by making Wesleyan one of our swing teams.  The Middlebury-Wesleyan series stands about even.  The thing to note is that each team has at one point been as many as 10 wins behind and come back to even the mark.  That doesn't happen with programs that have no history of winning football games.  Bates, Hamilton and Bowdoin, on the other hand, have no winning history whatsoever.  Only Bates has ever managed to win 5 NESCAC games in a season, doing so only once.  I've compiled the overall records of every NESCAC program, showing too clearly perhaps that I have no life.  I ranked them top to bottom and saw exactly what one would predict the standings to look like at season's end, with Colby being the only exception.  Their fans have good reason to feel frustrated.  I don't have the results of that research available but I feel confident in saying that none of the three programs have won more than 35% of their games.  That's a lot to overcome when you're trying to consistently recruit the top talent needed to turn your program around.   

Of course it's possible, but it's highly improbable.  Another detrimental factor is that Maine, like Vermont, plays very low level high school football by national standards.  The same holds true for New York.  When you have little or no in-state talent pool to recruit from everything has to come from outside and Maine is a tough sell.  Middlebury could well be a NESCAC have-not if the program hadn't established itself long before our highly competitive conference was formed, showing the importance of winning traditions when it comes to recruiting.  The size of New York's population means there is some excellent individual talent to be found there but why play at Hamilton when you can play at Hobart?

One word concerning improved facilities that has several posters excited in the hopes such renovations will result in improved records.  A college friend I've mentioned before on this board, who was the AD at NC St. for a decade, made that the primary focus of his tenure.  The Wolfpack's conference records in football and basketball since he left are 17-31 and 53-69, although the hoopsters did manage two winning seasons.

As a fan of the game, nescac1, I would like nothing better than for you to be able to say "I told you so." five or six seasons down the road.  I just can't see it happening.

[lumbercat]

Much as I appreciate the support, Lumbercat is 100% correct regarding the relative lack of college bound football talent in Vermont.  Small state, tiny high schools, few football programs, scant competition.
But the Stalcup kid is really good by our standards.  And he won't be competing against a NESCAC POY or a D1 transfer.
Bottom line, he gets an education at Bowdoin.  That is the prize.

Middhoops-

Stalcup was a highly touted QB coming into Middlebury. He was patiently waiting his turn behind All Conference QB Milano when Leibowitz transfers From UNLV. It was all over for the kid at that point. He was a talented athlete, but football wise, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But that wasn't the end of the story for the kid who got a great education and had a fine baseball experience finishing his senior year as a pitcher for Mike Leonards resurgent Panther baseball team. Kudos to Jake Stalcup. It could have worked out differently in terms of football at other NESCAC schools but I would bet bet he has little or no regrets.

I'm sure the younger Stalcup was recruited by Middlebury but perhaps, from a Football standpoint, he chose Bowdoin because he would have a better chance to get on the field while still getting a great education. The younger guy will have a better chance at Bowdoin and given his credentials he should fare well.

The QB position is interesting in the NESCAC. Year after year many teams are very deep at QB with backups who would be starters in other NESCAC programs.

Some schools tend to over recruit the QB position with the philosophy that QBs are generally very good athletes who can be transitioned to other positions. That approach yields some negative scenarios when a QB prospect arrives in camp and realizes he is one of 6 or 7 QBS on a 75 man roster and is not adaptable to another position.

Tufts has brought 6 or 7 QBs to camp in recent years. On paper this year, if the upper class guys return, Bowdoin will have at least 6 QBs in camp so I'd assume all the kids know the situation and are open to the possibility of ending up at another position.

[amh63]

Lumbercat, Vandy, Nescac1....good stuff all.  I am truely overmatched here on football wisdom/knowledge/analysis.  Have only age and faulty memory to counter/share.
Anyway, a fine example of the right head coach to build a winning tradition.  In the days before the present day Nescac, when Amherst played Springfield, Coast Guard, etc. Legendary Coach DARP arrived at Amherst and a young assistant soon joined.  That assistant was an All-American QB at Un. of Delaware.  Coach Miller later left for Trinity College where he built a winning football tradition...Football field is named for him.  It is noted on the Trinity website that Former HC Miller is on the list of candidates for the Football Hall of Fame.
In the pre-Nescac days, both Amherst and Williams won games over present day Nescac schools also due to LARGE talented squads...even when there were two-way players.  It was quite common that both the LJs and Ephs to have squads over 90 players.  The present day 75 player Limit and the "14" tip limit in football were established in part to even the "playing field" in the Nescac.  I'm glad that the 9 game schedule will also help.  It was only relatively  recent that other Nescac schools...many former have-nots...showed up with 75 players.
I attended a Tufts vs Amherst football game in Milford when I was at MIT.  Tufts was ranked by the Boston papers No.1 in NE, while Amherst came into the game with an injured starting QB.  I remember leaving the game overhearing some Tufts fans asking each other WHY Tufts always loses to Amherst.  The Boston papers looked into the cause of the lost.  The Amherst QB from Iowa turned out to have turned down scholarships to Iowa St and Iowa so that his MD father could pay for him to come to Amherst.  It happened that the QB, a MD today in NE, was recruited by his brother- in-law, a football playing classmate of mine.  It also helped that there were several young WRs on the team that ended up starting for several NFL teams that contributed to the upset win.  Note, the Amherst QB could throw but not run around due to an injured leg.