FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yes, not just a good hs program, but the hometown of Mount Union - the 800-pound gorilla of D3 football.   Since NESCAC (despite being a HUGE presence in most D3 sports) has chosen not to be a participant in D3 football, I wasn't sure whether posters would recognize the town.  I've always been curious how NESCAC would fare against D3 teams (pretty good, very good, or elite?), but it sounds like we will never know.  A pity.

[nescac1]

Lumbercat sorry, no idea how Pollack is as a player, just making a (pretty bad) joke re: his name ...

[gridiron]

Hard to compare when teams never play outside the league. Another difference is NESCAC football teams practice significantly less times than other D3 teams in prep for the season.

[polbear73]

Hard to compare when teams never play outside the league. Another difference is NESCAC football teams practice significantly less times than other D3 teams in prep for the season.

The 75 man roster doesn't help, either.  My guess is that NESCAC teams could compete well on the basis of front-line talent, but would have problems when it came to issues related to depth. 

[JEFFFAN]

Not in our lifetimes will NESCAC go to playoffs in football.   Adding that extra game will be as far as it goes IMHO.

[sigma one]

This has probably been explained previously (maybe on several occasions), but someone please tell me why, when they compete nationally in other sports (all other sports?) and have produced national championship DIII teams and individual winners in other sports, NESCAC refuses to enter the playoffs in football.  Is there a rational reason for this refusal?  (Please don't say budget concerns.)  Is there still an anti-football bias; if so, why do they play at all?  I think I know the answer to this last question, but I'd like to hear what you all know.

[polbear73]

NASCAC has always mirrored (and taken restrictions further than) the Ivy League in its attitudes toward football. Football is important but it as always been the policy to keep what they determine to be over emphasis in check. Proportions of incoming classes allotted to football players, practice time, extent of contact, and time allocated to the sport have always been hot buttons. In fact, the move to the 9 game schedule was done under mandate of safety (in season contract rules) rather than commit more to football. Why is football singled out? : the numbers of student athletes requires,  the volume of contact involved, and the inherent visibility of the sport. A 9 game intra conference schedule with no playoffs represents the comfort level of the NESCAC presidents toward football and the requirements to compete nationally falls into their definition of over emphasis.

[amh63]

polbear73...nice response to Nescac's football position.  I would add that a number of Nescac players have gone on to the NFL and some have started.  It seems that Nescac players tend to go on to own/coach professional teams, imho

[JEFFFAN]

NASCAC has always mirrored (and taken restrictions further than) the Ivy League in its attitudes toward football. Football is important but it as always been the policy to keep what they determine to be over emphasis in check. Proportions of incoming classes allotted to football players, practice time, extent of contact, and time allocated to the sport have always been hot buttons. In fact, the move to the 9 game schedule was done under mandate of safety (in season contract rules) rather than commit more to football. Why is football singled out? : the numbers of student athletes requires,  the volume of contact involved, and the inherent visibility of the sport. A 9 game intra conference schedule with no playoffs represents the comfort level of the NESCAC presidents toward football and the requirements to compete nationally falls into their definition of over emphasis.

Interesting about the safety element - had never considered that.  Plus K to Polbear73!   As you note, the roster size is an enormous issue in the NESCAC especially with the smaller schools.   At Bowdoin, for instance, the football team represents between 4%-5% of the student body.  Every 20 students means one football player.   I have spoken to folks at Conn College and other smaller colleges that don't have football - trust me they will do everything in their power to never add football.   Far too much of a hassle.   The playoffs will, IMHO, never happen.   It is enough to have the smaller sports fighting for NCAA championships, which has elevated the quality of those sports immensely in the NESCAC since inception.   Bottom line is that there is no need for football playoffs.  None!

[PolarCat]

And to add to polbears JEFFAN's and amh63's points: On many / most/ all NESCAC campii, there is a stridently vocal faction of the students and faculty who vehemently oppose the use of limited funds for a (gasp) program that encourages violent activity from Neanderthals who bring down the overall "quality" of the student body.  Last year, their was vigorous discussion in the Bowdoin Orient about abolishing football, and plopping the football budget into the general scholarship fund.  (This at a college that prides itself on stocking all restrooms - even the men's rooms - with feminine hygiene products, and providing free gender reassignment surgery in the college health plan). 

The Orient debate makes Bowdoin an easy target, but the same conversations occur at Bates, and probably every other 'CAC school with a football program.  I think the potential PR backlash of a post season would be too problematic for the CAC Presidents.  In any event, the 9 game current season is fine.  I don't think many of the players would want post season play.

[amh63]

Interesting topic coming to the news channel as March Madness concludes tonight.  Seems the U.S. Congress is getting involved...led in part by the Black Caucus...with how D1student athletes...are being exploited as the NCAA pulls in Billions of dollars!  Well, well things are getting interesting with big time sports .

[UfanBill]

Look the NESCAC can do what they want as far as postseason play is concerned but blaming it on "safety"?...come on, that's BS. First only one NESCAC team would qualify for the D3 playoffs each season since without out of conference play, there would be no at large bid.  That's one team for one or two additional games because frankly, that's as far as you would go. You're not that good. Roster depth?...the NCAA holds roster size for playoff games at I believe 55 players suited per game. How is that a problem? As a longtime Union fan, an original NESCAC member, I can say that Union's participation in the D3 playoff is a privilege and a high achievement for the players the team and the school.  It's a thrill for the fans and parents. I'm grateful, as is the whole Union community, for the chance. It brings a lot of pride, spirit and recognition. It is my contention that NESCAC fans just want to find excuses for not participating because it hurts to not have a say in gaining the opportunity. I kind of feel sorry for you guys.

[polbear73]

I never said that the reason for not having post season play was safety. The NESCAC presidents believe that a 9 game schedule with no post season was the appropriate level of football at serious academic institutions. Safety concerns were actually the impetus to move to 9 games as it added an additional week of in-season contact rules.

Please do us a favor and don't feel sorry for us. NESCAC players, families, and fans are very happy with the status quo.

[gridiron]

Since it took 50 years or whatever to finally get the 9 game schedule let's just be thankful for that and enjoy. The 8 game schedule was absolutely nuts.

[sigma one]

Thanks, everyone.  Your posts have been helpful.  They describe just about what I thought about the reasons for NESCAC not participating in the playoffs.  Very helpful.  There is no doubt that NESCAC is the finest collection of superior academic schools in the country.  And with that, perhaps to be lamented from the outside, comes a particular point of view about football.  Still, because NESCAC sends other teams and individuals into post-season competition, I find it hard to to think that the concerns are "fair" to the student-athletes who participate despite what has been stated here about what football represents in the minds of some students and administrators, and the schools' governing boards as well I surmise.  I say this knowing full well that many of those student-athletes go to NESCAC schools for the educational, and later the career, advantages that their diploma brings.They have to see other athletes going to post-season competition and wonder how they would stack up.  That's OK; NESCAC can do what it wants, of course.  I wish  that NESCAC would change its point of view, but I know that is not going to happen.  This is selfish on my part; I want to know how the best of the conference would stack up v. other schools--even if it may be unrealistic to think that they would  advance very far.  We don't know that,  and maybe on occasion a team would make a deep run.  NESCAC athletes and teams generally do very well when they go out of conference.  Football might sometimes do the same.
     Thanks, again.