FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[bant551]

I kinda disagree on how Willy can beat Trinity.  I think they'd have to grind it out.  You can be fairly certain that Trinity is going to hold onto the ball for 55 minutes if your team doesn't get first downs.  As for airing it out, once you get into that pattern against another team that grinds it out like Trinty, and you screw up once by going 3-and-out early, you might be in trouble.  On the other hand, if you have some horses in any given year, and tough kids up front, you might be able to grind out a bunch of 1st downs and keep Trinity from doing the same.

I actually think Tufts did that last season, didn't they?  Or maybe it was just a close score... I thought I remembered Tufts moving the ball alot more than the other teams were.

[Nescacfan05]

Remember Williams does not require SAT's so they do not have to report SAT's that are below standards or ones that will make SAT's lower......It is smoke and mirrors as far as SAT's go....a manipulation of numbers....lots of schools do this as well.

[Jonny Utah]

Remember Williams does not require SAT's so they do not have to report SAT's that are below standards or ones that will make SAT's lower......It is smoke and mirrors as far as SAT's go....a manipulation of numbers....lots of schools do this as well.

nescacfan05, Williams College applicants must either take the SAT's or ACT's and at least two SAT subject tests.  Either way applicants are taking at least one standardized test.

[Trin9-0]

chessdoc: In regards to the NESCAC, yes, Massachusetts is the heartland of football recruting. I'm not saying it has the greatest football players, clearly FL, CA, TX, PA, OH etc have superior high school football talent. However, the majority of NESCAC football rosters are made up of players from the Northeast (New England in particular). And the best football in New England is played in Eastern Mass and parts of CT. Also, the players in those areas are more likely to be familiar with those schools and their admissions requirements.

Despite the close games between Trinity and Tufts over the past few years I tend to agree with Nescac1. The Tufts game last year was a product of the weather/field condition and in the '02 game yours truly got beat deep right before half time (luckily, the blocked extra point made up for it).

The team that's given Trin the closest scare during the streak has been the Jeffs. In both games @ Amherst ('03 & '05) the Bants have let up early scores on big plays and had to battle back. It seems to me that when the Trin offense HAD to score it wasn't as efficient as when they merely needed to chew up clock on their way to the end zone.

No one has been able to run the ball against Trinity over the past 4 years, and that's not likely to change. However, if a team can get a few big plays through the air and hold Trin to 10 or 14 points then an upset is quite possible.

[LinemenRathletes2]

No one has been able to run the ball against Trinity over the past 4 years, and that's not likely to change.

God I hate hearing thing like that, but its true, I guess the only thing I can do is go on nescacnation, ephblog, etc.. and bitch and moan until things change. I know we have beat the Barnard issue to death, but was the article not completely inappropriate in the first place because it came from a coach who was currently employed by Williams College? I wonder if there was any sort of reprimand from the administration, AD, etc..

[Pallos]

  Does anyone have any familiarity with Williams admissions policies for athletes? My son will be applying next year and badly wants to go there. He is a very good athlete but will not be a tipped ( is that the term) athlete-- he's just not good enough according to his present coach-- but he is a 2 yr all-league player in his prep league.  He is ranked #1 in his class and has excellent scores at oneof the top prep schols in the country. My question: Is there anything a coach can do to support an athlete in the admissions process other than designating him ( or her ) as a tip?
   
     My son's friend appilied to Williams this past year and was not admitted despite being an All -NE Prep player and class validictorian ( w/ perfect Math SAT"s!! ). His father said that because he had such stellar academic the coach, decided not to tip him thinking he wouldn't need it. He went into the regular applicant pool where every other kid also had stellar grades and scores and gotten eaten alive. He applied early and then regular pools and was wait-listed ( but too deep down to ever be accepted ). The parents were able to talk with an admissions officer who agreed that he had a great scores/grades but that his essay wasn't that compelling? When they aske dif a tip woukld have made a difference the admissions officer refused to answer, saying that that would be speculation. Anyway, the kid will be at Harvard this fall so don't feel too sorry for him but he was very disappointed with a lack of explanation and felt he was just as good a player as kids Williams "tipped",  but with better grades and scores. It seems a shame that this has to happen to a kid who clearly just fell between the cracks because his parents may not have been assertive enough with a coach to demand a tip or at least some support. This kid's parents were heart-broken because they felt the system failed them and I am worried that my son will suffer the same fate unless I demand some form of support before  even applying. Has anyone gone through this themselves  with Williams-- or have any idea of what a coach can do for kids he would like but can't tip. I am just interested in how Williams handles this for now. Thanks.

[Jonny Utah]

  Does anyone have any familiarity with Williams admissions policies for athletes? My son will be applying next year and badly wants to go there. He is a very good athlete but will not be a tipped ( is that the term) athlete-- he's just not good enough according to his present coach-- but he is a 2 yr all-league player in his prep league.  He is ranked #1 in his class and has excellent scores at oneof the top prep schols in the country. My question: Is there anything a coach can do to support an athlete in the admissions process other than designating him ( or her ) as a tip?
   
     My son's friend appilied to Williams this past year and was not admitted despite being an All -NE Prep player and class validictorian ( w/ perfect Math SAT"s!! ). His father said that because he had such stellar academic the coach, decided not to tip him thinking he wouldn't need it. He went into the regular applicant pool where every other kid also had stellar grades and scores and gotten eaten alive. He applied early and then regular pools and was wait-listed ( but too deep down to ever be accepted ). The parents were able to talk with an admissions officer who agreed that he had a great scores/grades but that his essay wasn't that compelling? When they aske dif a tip woukld have made a difference the admissions officer refused to answer, saying that that would be speculation. Anyway, the kid will be at Harvard this fall so don't feel too sorry for him but he was very disappointed with a lack of explanation and felt he was just as good a player as kids Williams "tipped",  but with better grades and scores. It seems a shame that this has to happen to a kid who clearly just fell between the cracks because his parents may not have been assertive enough with a coach to demand a tip or at least some support. This kid's parents were heart-broken because they felt the system failed them and I am worried that my son will suffer the same fate unless I demand some form of support before  even applying. Has anyone gone through this themselves  with Williams-- or have any idea of what a coach can do for kids he would like but can't tip. I am just interested in how Williams handles this for now. Thanks.

Well theres two things here.  Basically if the coach really wants him to come to Williams he could tip him regardless of his status, or at least find out from admissions right away if he would have been an early admissions adimt.

My suggestion to you would be to have your son talk to other coaches and schools in the nescac and say its between Williams and the other two schools.  If the coach wants him bad, he will get him in the school as a tip or at least find out from admissions prior to Nov. 16th as to weather or not he would be admitted as a tip or not.  Those schools are very competitive in regards getting tips in before the other school or else they lose that kid to the other school.

What your sons friend should have done is told the Williams coach "Hey, I have to know for sure if he can get into Williams early admit or else Im going to go to Harvard or Amherst or wherever because I know I already got in there but Williams is my first choice"....or something like that.

[dirtybirds8-0]

Agreed.....You should leverage the other schools in the NESCAC to put pressure on Williams.  The coaches at Williams are not going to give tips unless they have a need at that position or if your son is a very good athlete (I don't know what league he plays in, or much abou NE high school football for that matter).  Just understand, and I guarantee you, that the Williams alumni are begining to complain about the programs slight stumble in recent years (Not going 7-1 or 8-0)...things will get very competitive going forward.

[Jonny Utah]

And I dont know but a perfect 800 math should get you into any school if you state your interested in a certain subject.  And there is a percentage score for SATs regarding high scores as well.  (ie: 100 percent of those with perfect math SATs get above a 530 verbal or something like that)  Basically your going to get into Williams if you have a 1500 and your #1 in your class at a NE prep school.

And Im not saying your lying but Id say about 50% of people will lie about what  they or their kid schools they apply to, what their sats were, what their class rank is etc.

[speedy]

My guess is that the Williams coach did not want him. I can't speak to the Williams process, but it's probably not all that different from Bowdoin's where the coaches tell admissions which applicants they want from the C band tips to protects to the stellar applicants who would be admitted without a tip. Since the kid was admitted to Harvard, he was clearly qualified and probably would have been admitted if the coach had given any indication of an interest . .

[formerbant10]

There is even the slight possibility that the coach told admissions not to admit the student because he knew he didn't want him.

I'd have to agree with the Quarterback Punk on this one....#1 at a top Prep School would most likely get in early at Williams.

[LinemenRathletes2]

I love the Point Break references popping up on this board

[dirtybirds8-0]

Sometimes it's difficult to addmitt that a friend's son or even your own son is not as good as one might think.  I am going to say that the coach did not want him...by the way...is that kid going to play for Harvard next year...or was he just excepted for academics?

[bant551]

I'd be fairly certain a kid with perfect math and who was ranked #1 in his class would just get into Williams.  Unless he did very poorly on his verbal or something.

Maybe you can tell me this b/c you got a kid looking at schools now: what do kids call their SAT scores these days with the extra section?  Do they just say their score out of the old 1600 when talking in a regular conversation, and then put the additional scores into their college applications, or do people say the score of of 2,400 now? 

[Jonny Utah]

I'd be fairly certain a kid with perfect math and who was ranked #1 in his class would just get into Williams.  Unless he did very poorly on his verbal or something.

Maybe you can tell me this b/c you got a kid looking at schools now: what do kids call their SAT scores these days with the extra section?  Do they just say their score out of the old 1600 when talking in a regular conversation, and then put the additional scores into their college applications, or do people say the score of of 2,400 now? 

Its the same 1600 as the old days but after 1998 they basically added 100 points to every score to have the average an 800.

So, a 1500 today is like a 1420 back in 1990