FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[speedy]

speedy: The 76th player on Trinity's roster does not have nearly enough talent to be a starter for Hamilton. Consequently he is very unlikely to choose Hamilton over Trinity in an attempt  to get playing time. And if for purposes of argument it is acknowledged that he has such talent, then why solve Hamilton's lack of roster size problem by creating an educational problem for Trinity. Folly. Trinity shouldn't stand for it.

Frank: I am just telling you what went into the decision-making process on the part of NESCAC officials. And the rule was as much aimed at Williams and Amherst as Trinity.  Trinity, of course, will stand for it as the 75-man limit on football rosters is but one of a host of rules governing all aspects of athletics at the NESCAC schools, which all NESCAC schools developed jointly and agreed to comply with. It is not as though Trinity is entitled to pick and choose among the NESCAC rules and policies and only comply with those that it likes.

[speedy]

Here's the NESCAC rule on squad size. The rosters must be finalized by noon on Friday of this week. No changes can be made later in the season . . . This rule has been in effect for several years now so it is surprising to hear parents complaining about.

Squad Size
Each NESCAC institution that sponsors football shall submit their official team roster (of no more than 75 players) to the conference office. Official rosters must be submitted no later than noon the day before the first game of the season. Each roster shall indicate the name and number of each player that will be eligible for practice and competition that season. No additions or substitutions will be permitted once the list is submitted. The roster should be submitted with the approval of and by the respective head coach and Athletics Director. Practice/taxi squads and/or separate junior varsity programs are not permitted.
(Effective: 09/21/01; Adopted 12/16/97)

[frank uible]

If I were Trinity, I might consider the possibility of my ignoring the Rule of 75 and daring NESCAC to do anything about it. The justification for my action would be that the rule is bad educational policy forced upon me by others for reasons of their self-interest. An alternate action might be to withdraw from NESCAC for football purposes, which action would allow me to avoid the fetters of (a) the Rule of 75, (b) the 8 game limited schedule, (c) the requirement that I play football games against colleges with whose approach to football I substantially disagree (possibly such as Hamilton) and (d) the prohibition against (i) games with colleges outside of NESCAC and (ii) participation in post season play.

[Jonny Utah]

Frank, being a football guy I would agree with you about Trinity.  I went to Ithaca college for a chance to play for a national championship.  On the other hand, Trinity as a school needs to be associated with the nescac schools.  If the nescac schools threatened to throw trinity out of the leage because of rule violations or even for the reasons that the majority of trinity athletes couldnt get into to other nescac schools and the nescac thought that some reputation was being challanged,  you would see trinity administration drop football for a few years before they would leave the nescac.

[frank uible]

boston: You may be right, but it doesn't mean that such action would be educationally or ethically sound. It would merely mean that a bully (NESCAC) was up on its muscle.

[Jonny Utah]

true frank but let me ask you this.  What if a guy like maurice clarett transfered to trinity after that whole draft debacle.  What would people be saying then, or what should people be saying then.  (and for the record, I have no idea what clarettes academic credentials are, Im assuming that is around what 95% of d1 football scholarship players is)

[speedy]

Frank: NESCAC is an all-sports conference. As I understand it, the rules are set by the presidents of the institutions. Trinity has many other sports interests besides football (strong baselball, hockey, and basketball programs) and is not going to jeopardize its entire sports program by getting tossed out of the NESCAC for violating a black-and-white rule. NESCAC will (and has) tossed out schoools that do not comply with its rules. That is precisely what happened to Union and that was before the NESCAC rules were as tight and as specific as they are now.

[formerbant10]

Speedy:  Hamilton is considered part of the NESCAC, but does not compete in the NESCAC in men's or women's basketball.  And why is everyone talking about the NESCAC wanting to oust Trinity?  I don't know where all this talk is coming from, but it is an absolutely ridiculous idea that the NESCAC would want to throw out Trinity.  Trinity's President is the chair of the NESCAC this year and I know for a fact that he believes NESCAC sports are the best in all of college athletics which is why he took the job at Trinity.  I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think the NESCAC is looking to boot Trinity just becuase they are winning a few football games.  But keeping throwing that hate around.

[dirtybirds8-0]

Listen, Trinity is not in any jepordy of being thrown out of the league, and having played at Trinity I can give a a solid opinion of how the program is being run.
      First of all, Chuck Priore has run the program like a true professional from day one.  As a coach he realized that the program needed a change, and he proved his point when many seniors and juniors quit his first season at the helm.  He had/has great recruiting skills, and managed to get the right players for his style of play.  Within three seasons Priore was able to tie for the championship...and the rest we all know.  Over the last last five seasons Priore has followed the NESCAC guidelines, and I witnessed Priore cut players from the roster in order to reach the 75 man limit.  I can assure you that Priore would not want any red tape tied to his name or to the program.  The players, coaches, alumni and institution have tremendous pride for their football program....it has a long and outstanding history. 
        It seems to me, the only reason there is so much heat on Trinity is the fact that the players and coaches have worked very hard to achieve the level of success that other NESCAC schools desperatly want to reach.  The truth of the matter is....while Trinty football players are pumping iron in the offseason, and studying playbooks.......some of the other players in the league are taking long vacations, and doing NOTHING to help them improve their athletic ability (I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT).  Please note that I said "SOME", which is exactly the difference right now....because other players in other programs are not holding each other accountable....it has nothing to do with coaches or schools.  If you want to know why Trinity has been so sucessful over the past few years, all you have to do is talk to the players.  They respect and fear the possibilty of letting each other, or the program down......That is what makes the difference.....they are truly a TEAM.

[speedy]

Speedy:  Hamilton is considered part of the NESCAC, but does not compete in the NESCAC in men's or women's basketball.  And why is everyone talking about the NESCAC wanting to oust Trinity?  I don't know where all this talk is coming from, but it is an absolutely ridiculous idea that the NESCAC would want to throw out Trinity.  Trinity's President is the chair of the NESCAC this year and I know for a fact that he believes NESCAC sports are the best in all of college athletics which is why he took the job at Trinity.  I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think the NESCAC is looking to boot Trinity just becuase they are winning a few football games.  But keeping throwing that hate around.

The talk of ousting Trinity from NESCAC only arises in the context of Frank's suggestion that Trinity should willfully violate NESCAC rules with regard to NESCAC roster limits. I know of no such plans so presumably we are only discussing a theoretical possibility.

The Hamilton case is a special one because its ability to continue participate in another league for basketball, baseball, and soccer was grandfathered. It would be a different case if any one of the NESCAC schools were to try to opt out of the NESCAC on a sport-by-sport basis. There's no way such a move by Trinity or any other NESCAC member  would be tolerated at this stage of the game.

[Trin9-0]

Trinity has been in COMPLETE compliance of the 75 player roster limit since the implementation of the rule in 2001.  I have friends who were upperclassment at Trinity who worker hard all summer and practiced all preseason that were cut prior to the season opener.  

This is a ridiculous rule that is counterintuitive to what DIII athletics is all about. We don't play division III athletics as a means to get to the pros or as a way to keep our athletic scholarship. We play because we love the game.  It's true that the 76th player on Trinity, Williams or Amherst would make no difference on any other NESCAC school, and to say that they should have gone to a different school where they would have played (not to mention if they would have gotten it) and have them sit the bench on a team that wont even be competitive makes no sense.

Chuck Priore would tell you that the hardest days he has had coaching at Trinity are the days when he has had to cut a player. A young man that has made a commitment to the football program, a player who all he wants to do is practice and dress on gamedays, and be a part of a championship team.  He hates the rule, but regardless of how he feels about it, he has inforced it each and every year and will continue to do so.

As for Colby, they seem to have been as good as advertised, however, we must remember they were playing an (at best) middle of the pack Bates team. We'll know a lot more about the Mules after this weekends game against Williams.  If they show up flat against the Ephs, it will be a long game for the home team.

I was unable to get to the Trinity-Wesleyan scrimmage but spoke to some friends who went and a coach at Trinity. To no suprise, the Bantams were dominant.  The score was 40-something to 6. The Trinity O-line, which had been called into question on this board, looked strong and the defense may be the fastest unit Priore has had at Trinity (which is saying something).

As for what these scrimmages mean to Trinity-Williams and Trinity-Amherst... probably nothing, but the biggest scare the Bantams have had during their 22 game win streak was a 21-14 comeback win at Amherst.  If Trinity can get by Williams week 2, they should have a good shot to go 8-0 again, as Priore will avoid any let-down this year at Amherst.

[BobbyBoucher]

This rule may be counterintuitive to DIII athletics, but I'm assuming all NESCAC schools/coaches are required by the league to inform their recruits/parents during the recruiting process.  If the recruit still decides to attend a NESCAC school, its their problem.

Now if this information is not divulged, I would have a serious problem with the school's administrative office and league policies.

[formerbant10]

Speedy, thanks for clearing that up for me.  As a former Trinity athlete I get pretty offended when people say the academic standards are lowered for athletes.  I was very proud of the fact that I could have gotten into Trinity without the help of a coach talking to admissions.  I was also proud of the fact that more than 50% of my teammates achieved over a 3.0 while I was on the team, not to mention that I was proud of us winning about 75% of our contests.  And I still don't like the fact that this board seems to be saying that Trinity is the only school guilty of such a practice.  Were people questioning Williams' admissions when there hoops team went to the finals two years in a row, no.  So I don't get why people are questioning Trinity's ethics and how they have gotten to this point of dominance.  I'm gonna take Trin8-0's word on how the Trinity program works seeing as though he was a part of it.  Everyone else is speculating on the issue, it seems as if he is the only one that has any real connection to the team.

[oldman99]

Was there a new scrimmage structure in the Nescac this year, instead of the old system where you would scrimmage the team that you did not play in the regular season?  Who did Middlebury scrimmage.  Thanks for the info.

[speedy]

Was there a new scrimmage structure in the Nescac this year, instead of the old system where you would scrimmage the team that you did not play in the regular season?  Who did Middlebury scrimmage.  Thanks for the info.

Midllebury scrimmaged the Dartmouth JV. Bowdoin scrimmaged Tufts and has a regular season game with Tufts as well.