FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[bant551]

Priore presided over the streak and was only at Trinity for a relatively short period of time.  That means in a short coaching stint, he had 30 wins under his belt... in a row.  One would think it virtually impossible for a long-time NESCAC coach to win at the same rate over a period of decades.

Of course, that streak made Priore's winning percentage go through the roof.  Does this clown realize that -- even including the record winning streak -- that Dick Farley (man, myth, legend) still had a higher career winning percentage than Priore?  Over decades and decades as opposed to five years?  Do you know enough about sports (or percentages) to know how unlikely/impressive that is?  How much more impressive that is than Priore's streak?

Doesn't that FACT kind of put this whole "Trinity has recruiting advantages" argument to bed?  Farley was a great coach and an extremely knowledgeable football man.  I won't argue against that... but the only way to achieve a better winning percentage over decades and decades than record-setting Priore did in a few short years is to have an incredible advantage in terms of the players you are coaching.

Also, and I forgive you since you aren't yourself an athlete... but I know a LOT of the guys from the Williams football teams from my year and the surrounding years.  We've discussed this time and again.  There was no noticeable difference in terms of the academic credentials of the Trinity and Williams football players.  The Williams guys, however, were superior athletes during each and every year I was at Trinity.

[dirtybirds30-0]

The only way Williams, Amherst, or Trinity will not finish 1,2,3 in the league...or tied for the league championship is if injuries begin to plague a specific team.  Imagine if one or two of Williams offensive starters gets hurt...that would throw them way off line.  It will be interesting to see how the year progresses.

[Pat Coleman]

I know in my mind an anti-Trinity bias came from the smugness of some of the posts and predictions on this board ...

Trinity fans hardly have a stranglehold on smugness in the NESCAC.

[bant551]

I agree.  I know I'm just a lowly ex-football player from Trinity, but I don't think smugness and being very frank when laying out your weekly predictions are the same thing.

Smugness probably is closer to ripping on players by calling them intellectually inferior because they went to Trinity.

Being "mean" is probably the right word for his "take no prisoners" game predictions.

[Col. Partridge]

Call me smug  , but why is Middlebury automatically excluded from the list of this year's contenders, ceteris paribus?  They beat Colby by a greater margin than Trinity did.  Obviously what happened last year or the year before does not mean much this season...

[Trin9-0]

It's funny how Trinity losing a game sparks even more debate about the recruiting advantages/disadvantages of NESCAC schools. I would venture to say that due to the elitism and smugness in the NESCAC that even if every team in the league finished 4-4 and we had an AI people would still complain.

It appears that Colby may have been slightly over rated. Williams should get to 7-0 if they stay focused. Amherst will have a tough time winning at Trinity in the seniors last home game. Bowdoin better than their record indicates and will win some games. Congrats to Wes, wouldn't be suprised if they won another game or two. Seems to be the status quo for Tufts, Bates and Hamilton. Middlebury still has several tough games before they can be considered a true contender for a title.

[Ephmen1991]

Has anybody seen any NEFC games this year?  I saw Coast Guard vs. Westfield State the week before Williams-Trinity.  I am certainly biased towards NESCAC but was very disappointed in the lack of intensity and emotion from CGA and Westfield and could definetly see that they don't match up with Trinity and Williams for size and talent.  I imagine Curry would be a bit different but has anyone else seen both conferences play?

[frank uible]

I have seen quite a bit of NESCAC football and some of NEFC. It is my impression that the better teams in the NEFC have equivalent to slightly better personnel than the top of NESCAC. The NESCAC teams are much better prepared - presumably because their coaching staffs are full time while those of the NEFC are part time.

[Trinity 8(5)0]

Of course, that streak made Priore's winning percentage go through the roof.  Does this clown realize that -- even including the record winning streak -- that Dick Farley (man, myth, legend) still had a higher career winning percentage than Priore?  Over decades and decades as opposed to five years?  Do you know enough about sports (or percentages) to know how unlikely/impressive that is?  How much more impressive that is than Priore's streak?

Doesn't that FACT kind of put this whole "Trinity has recruiting advantages" argument to bed?

    Doesn't change a thing or even address the fact that Trinity has lower admissions standards than any other league school,  that it admits kids in greater number than any other league school can and that this is a considerable advantage in recruiting. Ask any coach in the league.   If anything it just points out that Priore wasn't so much a good football coach as he was an opportunist and that Farley was a coach of greater abilities. Priore's streak came during a time of de-emphasis of football at other league schools and I believe the overall level of league play was higher during Farley's tenure than it is today.

   My problem with Priore and the Trinity administration is that many at Trinity felt that the school was bringing in football players who made a mockery of Trinity's educational mission and as a group were invoved in a higher number of on-campus incidents ( altercations, drunkeness,  theft ) than had happened for as long as many could recall.  This came at a time when Trinity's SAT's and selectivity rankings were dropping in relation to other league schools.

     As for a athletic index I see it as a way of legitimizing all NESCAC athletes as well as affording them a heightened sense of self-worth.  The ugly stigma of the dumb-jock on campus that exists  in the minds of many faculty, administration and the student body would be supplanted by the knowledge that athletes are at least achieving a recognized floor of academic standards. THis would go a long way to allaying the tensions between faculty, non-student-athletes and the athletic community on many campuses and between league member schools themselves. Some people say that even if each school were to introduce a.i. it would inevitably result in one school have a lower a.i. than the rest - in the case of the Ivy League model - it would still provide the athletes of NESCAC with an eclipsed threshold of standards that would go a long way to discrediting the dumb-jock stereotype that elements at all league colleges have long subscribed to. In the end it would do a great service to the athletes themselves, promote better understanding and relations between the athletic community and other groups on campus, strengthen trust between schools involved in league play and advance the NESCAC ideal of striving toward academic excellence. Take a look at this from the league mission statement and see if an ai wouldn't greatly support the league's objectives:
   
           "... Its members are committed first and foremost to academic excellence and believe that athletic excellence supports our educational mission.

Each institution is committed to providing a comprehensive athletic program available to the entire student body. All participants in athletic activities are treated equitably.

The Conference is based on mutual trust, and all members are committed to the highest ethical standards in our relationships with each other. It encourages its members to compete with one another and is committed to promoting equitable competition among us. The Conference is committed to establishing common boundaries to keep athletics strong but in proportion to the overall academic mission of the member institutions..."

[bantman]

Frank- I've seen a ton of both the NESCAC and the NEFC and I can tell you the talent is much better in the NESCAC from top to bottom.  The top of the NEFC (Curry, Fitchburg, Endicott, Bridgewater) could be competitve, but would struggle to finish over .500 in the NESCAC.  You're right about the decided advantage the NESCAC has in the coaching department although some schools in the NEFC are moving in that direction.    

[dirtybirds30-0]

Can someone within D3football.com kick this loser off the board?   

[Col. Partridge]

If the conference is based on "mutual trust", then other conference members should trust Trinity's integrity without imposing some complicated matrix on admissions.   If those things you change are true (I have no idea if they are or are not), then Trinity's administration has a duty to put the brakes on the football program.   

I do not know (or want to know) the ins and outs of an AI, but it would seem to me that those schools with the highest admissions standards would be the ones with the most to lose from an athletic competitiveness standpoint, because all athletes would need to be within x deviations of the mean from the entire student body.   

[frank uible]

bantman: In 2001 in the week immediately after I saw Williams defeat Amherst narrowly in an OT game of unbeatens and the last game of the season for each of them, I saw Westfield State play in the NCAA playoffs. It seemed to me that Westfield State was a little bigger and a little faster than either Williams or Amherst but had relatively simplistic schemes. Perhaps my eyes deceived me at the time, or Westfield State was much better that year than the typical NEFC champion.

[formerbant10]

My problem with Priore and the Trinity administration is that many at Trinity felt that the school was bringing in football players who made a mockery of Trinity's educational mission and as a group were invoved in a higher number of on-campus incidents ( altercations, drunkeness,  theft ) than had happened for as long as many could recall.  This came at a time when Trinity's SAT's and selectivity rankings were dropping in relation to other league schools.

Those are some pretty serious allegations.  You must work for the Trinity Campus Safety or HPD to stumble upon that information.

Remember that this board is for discussing football, not demeaning groups of people based on a commonanility.

[Trinity 8(5)0]

If the conference is based on "mutual trust", then other conference members should trust Trinity's integrity without imposing some complicated matrix on admissions.

   The ai wouldn't apply to Trinity solely, it would be adopted by all member schools. Ai could be set by each individual school with a floor that meets with league consensus. Mutual trust involved here in assuming that all schools comply with this standard. Schools w/ no Sat's could have ai's tailored to gpa and/or class rank.
    My feeling is the ai would create as much trust between certain groups on campus as it would between the league member schools themselves.