FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[nescac1]

I think lumbercat's idea of two ROY awards is a great one.  It's a bummer to hear class of 2024 guys who have never had a varsity season are not eligible.  Several of them seem to already be off to great starts across the league ... it's going to be a hard year for 2025 guys to make a big impact with at many schools effectively four classes of players ahead of them, and with many of them coming off abbreviated or unorthodox senior seasons of H.S. football themselves ...

[Nescacman]

I think lumbercat's idea of two ROY awards is a great one.  It's a bummer to hear class of 2024 guys who have never had a varsity season are not eligible.  Several of them seem to already be off to great starts across the league ... it's going to be a hard year for 2025 guys to make a big impact with at many schools effectively four classes of players ahead of them, and with many of them coming off abbreviated or unorthodox senior seasons of H.S. football themselves ...

If a '25 guy contributes this year, you know they are stud...

[nescac1]

Definitely, Nescacman.  Only three Eph true frosh seemed to be in the regular (non-garbage-time) rotation in week one: K Ivan Shuran and DL Cameron Smith, both of whom turned down several low D1 offers, and TB Mario Fischetti, who was one of the top players on Long Island and who, with another two inches, surely would have been a D1 guy. 

[Trin9-0]

The Equity in Athletics Data Analysis link has been posted here before, but it's a useful tool for those interested in actual data (not just rumors and hearsay) for the expenses/revenues of collegiate athletics programs. Thankfully, for the purposes on this board, it also specifically includes data for just football programs.

You can play around if you're interested (*note: for some reason Williams needs to be manually entered into the NESCAC when comparing data by conference). Below is what seems to be the most relevant information regarding football operating expenses and revenues as well as their percent of the total athletics department expenses and revenues. I've sorted the list below by "Football Operating Expenses". It's also worth noting that the information below is from 2019.







   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

School	Football Operating Expenses	% of Athletics Department Operating Expenses	Football Expenses	% of Athletics Department Expenses	Football Gross Revenue	Football Net Revenue	% of Athletics Department Revenue
Colby	$192,434	21%	$834,637	24%	$834,637	$0	24%
Hamilton	$159,406	23%	$717,879	29%	$717,879	$0	29%
Bowdoin	$137,568	19%	$932,354	33%	$949,950	$17,596	30%
Trinity	$127,006	16%	$927,699	30%	$1,162,536	$234,837	29%
Williams	$113,781	21%	$587,710	21%	$587,710	$0	21%
Bates	$100,629	24%	$667,274	27%	$603,148	($64,126)	23%
Tufts	$96,641	29%	$923,945	32%	$891,914	($32,031)	28%
Wesleyan	$70,523	23%	$678,494	23%	$794,198	$115,704	21%
Amherst	$64,008	14%	$734,800	26%	$830,773	$95,973	27%
Middlebury	$49,743	11%	$505,571	21%	$505,571	$0	21%
Average	$111,174	20%	$751,036	27%	$787,832	$36,795	25%

[polbear73]

Man, Bowdoin spends a lot of money to go 3-40!

[Nescacman]

The Equity in Athletics Data Analysis link has been posted here before, but it's a useful tool for those interested in actual data (not just rumors and hearsay) for the expenses/revenues of collegiate athletics programs. Thankfully, for the purposes on this board, it also specifically includes data for just football programs.

You can play around if you're interested (*note: for some reason Williams needs to be manually entered into the NESCAC when comparing data by conference). Below is what seems to be the most relevant information regarding football operating expenses and revenues as well as their percent of the total athletics department expenses and revenues. I've sorted the list below by "Football Operating Expenses". It's also worth noting that the information below is from 2019.







   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

School	Football Operating Expenses	% of Athletics Department Operating Expenses	Football Expenses	% of Athletics Department Expenses	Football Gross Revenue	Football Net Revenue	% of Athletics Department Revenue
Colby	$192,434	21%	$834,637	24%	$834,637	$0	24%
Hamilton	$159,406	23%	$717,879	29%	$717,879	$0	29%
Bowdoin	$137,568	19%	$932,354	33%	$949,950	$17,596	30%
Trinity	$127,006	16%	$927,699	30%	$1,162,536	$234,837	29%
Williams	$113,781	21%	$587,710	21%	$587,710	$0	21%
Bates	$100,629	24%	$667,274	27%	$603,148	($64,126)	23%
Tufts	$96,641	29%	$923,945	32%	$891,914	($32,031)	28%
Wesleyan	$70,523	23%	$678,494	23%	$794,198	$115,704	21%
Amherst	$64,008	14%	$734,800	26%	$830,773	$95,973	27%
Middlebury	$49,743	11%	$505,571	21%	$505,571	$0	21%
Average	$111,174	20%	$751,036	27%	$787,832	$36,795	25%

Would love more color here....what do each of the headings specifically mean? What are their definitions? Does this factor in alumni/parent donations? Thanks.

[Trin9-0]

Would love more color here....what do each of the headings specifically mean? What are their definitions? Does this factor in alumni/parent donations? Thanks.

The site doesn't provide definitions, but my assumption is the difference between "Football Expenses" and "Football Operating Expenses" is primarily coaching salary/benefits. As for donations, that almost surely accounts for the "Football Gross Revenue" as NESCAC schools aren't pulling in over a half million dollars on ticket sales, apparel and TV rights deals. 

There really aren't too many outliers here (aside from how little Middlebury appears to be spending). It's worth noting that each school likely uses a slightly different approach to their accounting which could explain why half the league spends only what the program brings in while others end up making a bit of money and still others are in the red. All in all, the football programs appear to be holding their own in terms of the money they're bringing in vs. spending. And while NESCAC athletics has never been about turning a profit it's not a good look for Bates to be losing money with the rumors it could drop football all together.

[SpringSt7]

I'm not an accountant but can Colby, Hamilton, and Bowdoin's top 3 football operating expenses be easily explained away by the fact that those schools are responsible for an overwhelming amount of the league's overall time spent in a hotel?

[Trin9-0]

I'm not an accountant but can Colby, Hamilton, and Bowdoin's top 3 football operating expenses be easily explained away by the fact that those schools are responsible for an overwhelming amount of the league's overall time spent in a hotel?

It's likely a factor, although I don't think their time spent in a hotel is as overwhelming as you think. This season Hamilton appears to have 4 overnight trips (or 3 if they're planning to leave very early to play Amherst). I count 3 overnights for Colby and then just 2 for Bates.
Next season with the sites flipped I would assume 4 hotel stays each for Hamilton, Colby, and Bates.

However, Middlebury appears to have the 3 or 4 overnight trips each season (depending on the year) and they're at the very bottom of Football Operating Expenses category. Also, every league school is taking at least 2 overnight trips per season. I can't imagine the difference between even two extra overnight trips accounts for much more than $10K-$15K total when you account for hotels, buses, meals, etc.

[polbear73]

Bowdoin probably spends 3 hotel nights per season, at Hamilton, at Wesleyan, at Middlebury in years with 5 home games; and at Trinity, at Williams, at Amherst in years with 4 home games; Tufts and the Maine schools are bus rides only. Not sure how that stacks up with other teams.

[amh63]

Ran a lot of the numbers through my head and my head hurts....just kidding.  What is missing here are where donations enter the picture...like friends of "football" and endowed coaches' positions and....is it possible...variations in school's accounting methods.  Also, it is to be noted that Amherst, Williams and Bowdoin have presently the three largest endownments and have three of the lowest enrollments.  Traveling expenses in a school's athletic department is another variable.  Though football has the biggest squad, it has the fewest games.  Got a headache...thanks Trin 8-0   Note that Trinity charges for it's football seats in its new football stadium...with it's skewed visitor stand.

[Nescacman]

Ran a lot of the numbers through my head and my head hurts....just kidding.  What is missing here are where donations enter the picture...like friends of "football" and endowed coaches' positions and....is it possible...variations in school's accounting methods.  Also, it is to be noted that Amherst, Williams and Bowdoin have presently the three largest endownments and have three of the lowest enrollments.  Traveling expenses in a school's athletic department is another variable.  Though football has the biggest squad, it has the fewest games.  Got a headache...thanks Trin 8-0   Note that Trinity charges for it's football seats in its new football stadium...with it's skewed visitor stand.

We think this is really interesting info (thanks Hs5-4)...

We are going to look at the website tonight when we have some time to dive into the data...

Although we are not questioning the validity of the data at all, we agree with LM63 that some of this doesn't make sense and probably has to do with schools reporting differently....apples-to-oranges if you will maybe... for example, 3/4 of the "top" teams in the conference spend the least on football opex while 3 schools in the historical "bottom" tier spend the most...makes you think...

[BigKat]

Hotel costs cant be that much. 75 players travel, 2 players to a room plus coaches' and trainers' rooms. 10k per trip at most?

[Trin9-0]

Ran a lot of the numbers through my head and my head hurts....just kidding.  What is missing here are where donations enter the picture...like friends of "football" and endowed coaches' positions and....is it possible...variations in school's accounting methods.  Also, it is to be noted that Amherst, Williams and Bowdoin have presently the three largest endownments and have three of the lowest enrollments.  Traveling expenses in a school's athletic department is another variable.  Though football has the biggest squad, it has the fewest games.  Got a headache...thanks Trin 8-0   Note that Trinity charges for it's football seats in its new football stadium...with it's skewed visitor stand.

We think this is really interesting info (thanks Hs5-4)...

We are going to look at the website tonight when we have some time to dive into the data...

Although we are not questioning the validity of the data at all, we agree with LM63 that some of this doesn't make sense and probably has to do with schools reporting differently....apples-to-oranges if you will maybe... for example, 3/4 of the "top" teams in the conference spend the least on football opex while 3 schools in the historical "bottom" tier spend the most...makes you think...

If I had to guess I'd say that the Revenue figures include gifts to the teams operating budgets (the "Friends of Football" funds) but gifts to existing team endowments or, in some cases, endowed coaching positions are not included. Neither would gifts to capital projects such as the new stadium facilities at Williams, Amherst, Trinity for example.

Agree that there is room for differing accounting practices.

[Nescacman]

Hotel costs cant be that much. 75 players travel, 2 players to a room plus coaches' and trainers' rooms. 10k per trip at most?

We don't think the disparity has anything to do with travel...MID travels as much as anyone and they spend the least...

We were thinking coaches salaries might have something to do with the disparity since many of the schools at the top of the opex category have newer coaches and maybe paid up to get them...however, the Ephs fall into that category and they are one of the teams that spend the least....so much for that theory...